T
TAZ
Guest
lol:rofl:
Why Systema?
- Thread starter NYCRonin
- Start date
erich
Yellow Belt
well, I am systema adjunct, a student of Viktor Sirotin's in Seattle rather than Vlad's, but here is my answer.
-found it by dumb luck
-stuck around because it was deep and felt so natural and right, and most of all because there was no bs (belts, outfits, ceremonies, board breaking, organizational politics etc)
-Will never stop systema (how can you?) but would not be interested in being part a "systema organization" that incorporated the aforementioned bs.
I fear this bs will eventually (hopefully not for at least 50yrs) creep in as a result of organization. We should all be very thankful for this opportunity to be so close to a pure & un-adulterated fighting and survival art with such incredible teachers.
OK - this has put a question in my mind. Off to start a new thread.
thanks Rob
-found it by dumb luck
-stuck around because it was deep and felt so natural and right, and most of all because there was no bs (belts, outfits, ceremonies, board breaking, organizational politics etc)
-Will never stop systema (how can you?) but would not be interested in being part a "systema organization" that incorporated the aforementioned bs.
I fear this bs will eventually (hopefully not for at least 50yrs) creep in as a result of organization. We should all be very thankful for this opportunity to be so close to a pure & un-adulterated fighting and survival art with such incredible teachers.
OK - this has put a question in my mind. Off to start a new thread.
thanks Rob
W
woda
Guest
The question, in my mind, is why wouldn't you take Systema?
-kicks
-knees
-punches
-elbows
-joint locks
-holds
-ground work
-grappling
-weapons
-throws
-health system
-multiple attackers
-works regardless of age, size, strength or gender
-deals with fight fatigue, fear and adrenaline control
-high learning curve
-doesn't rely on muscle memory
-consistency and continuity
-no stances
-no katas
-personally customized
Everything is there. All incorporated into one single system. No cross-training and having to adapt philosophies or switch between them in the middle of a fight.
There's always someone stronger. Or tougher. Or who has seen more **** than you have. Relying on these things is a good way to get seriously hurt. My jobs aren't as violent as some RMA members, but I've been in enough fights and chases and weapons situations to know what doesn't work. A knife doesn't care how much muscle you have. BJJ is useless against weapons or multiple attackers and adrenaline has failed me close to as many times as it's helped me.
In fact, it was after a situation at work where I'd ended up in a "2-part" fight with someone that I realized the limits of adrenaline. After winning "round 1 (and foolishly taking it easy on him - stupid 'minimum force') " there was a lull in the action (not even very long). The subject had given up, but subsequently refused to be handcuffed. I experienced a massive adrenaline dump and fear crept in. "Round 2" started and I got my *** handed to me though he agreed to stop fighting if he could walk back uncuffed. With much humility I agreed.
I don't run that fast, but sometimes I feel like a gazelle during a chase. Other times I feel like I have 45lb. plates strapped to my legs and I'm in quicksand. My point? Relying on adrenaline is unreliable at best and suicidal at worst. It affects different people differently and differently at different times and situations.
Systema offered not only a comprehensive H2H system, it offered me the philosophy I was after. When you look at history's greatest athletes, they often say the same thing as to why they're so dominant: because that have the ability "to slow the game down in their head" or "they're able to see the whole ice (or field, if you like)." I believe Systema does this. You're trained to deal with any situation from a physical standpoint, but you also learn how to keep control and make adrenaline work for you by staying calm and relaxed - which is when your reflexes are at their fastest anyways.
Trust me, it takes effort and a lot of anger to always be violent. When I first started work, I'd choke people while screaming at them at the top of my lungs. So much easier to control someone with ease and mininum effort than it is to beat them black-and-blue. You need a strong stomach for that. But the anger eventually goes away and then what?
Also, the art adapts itself to everyone's own physical abilities. Tall or short, squat or lanky, it becomes yours. No two people do it the same way.
So after about 300 hours of internet research, I decided Systema was the real thing.
Leave? I side with those who mention commercialism or watering-down the art.
-kicks
-knees
-punches
-elbows
-joint locks
-holds
-ground work
-grappling
-weapons
-throws
-health system
-multiple attackers
-works regardless of age, size, strength or gender
-deals with fight fatigue, fear and adrenaline control
-high learning curve
-doesn't rely on muscle memory
-consistency and continuity
-no stances
-no katas
-personally customized
Everything is there. All incorporated into one single system. No cross-training and having to adapt philosophies or switch between them in the middle of a fight.
There's always someone stronger. Or tougher. Or who has seen more **** than you have. Relying on these things is a good way to get seriously hurt. My jobs aren't as violent as some RMA members, but I've been in enough fights and chases and weapons situations to know what doesn't work. A knife doesn't care how much muscle you have. BJJ is useless against weapons or multiple attackers and adrenaline has failed me close to as many times as it's helped me.
In fact, it was after a situation at work where I'd ended up in a "2-part" fight with someone that I realized the limits of adrenaline. After winning "round 1 (and foolishly taking it easy on him - stupid 'minimum force') " there was a lull in the action (not even very long). The subject had given up, but subsequently refused to be handcuffed. I experienced a massive adrenaline dump and fear crept in. "Round 2" started and I got my *** handed to me though he agreed to stop fighting if he could walk back uncuffed. With much humility I agreed.
I don't run that fast, but sometimes I feel like a gazelle during a chase. Other times I feel like I have 45lb. plates strapped to my legs and I'm in quicksand. My point? Relying on adrenaline is unreliable at best and suicidal at worst. It affects different people differently and differently at different times and situations.
Systema offered not only a comprehensive H2H system, it offered me the philosophy I was after. When you look at history's greatest athletes, they often say the same thing as to why they're so dominant: because that have the ability "to slow the game down in their head" or "they're able to see the whole ice (or field, if you like)." I believe Systema does this. You're trained to deal with any situation from a physical standpoint, but you also learn how to keep control and make adrenaline work for you by staying calm and relaxed - which is when your reflexes are at their fastest anyways.
Trust me, it takes effort and a lot of anger to always be violent. When I first started work, I'd choke people while screaming at them at the top of my lungs. So much easier to control someone with ease and mininum effort than it is to beat them black-and-blue. You need a strong stomach for that. But the anger eventually goes away and then what?
Also, the art adapts itself to everyone's own physical abilities. Tall or short, squat or lanky, it becomes yours. No two people do it the same way.
So after about 300 hours of internet research, I decided Systema was the real thing.
Leave? I side with those who mention commercialism or watering-down the art.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
Erich
It was a pleasure to meet with and converse with your teacher back at the seminar in Seattle. I was quite impressed by his mannner - I hope to see him again one day.
We are moving along well with this thread - and some answers are just what I believed they would be. Anyone else care to 'step up to the plate' and take a swing at the questions?
It was a pleasure to meet with and converse with your teacher back at the seminar in Seattle. I was quite impressed by his mannner - I hope to see him again one day.
We are moving along well with this thread - and some answers are just what I believed they would be. Anyone else care to 'step up to the plate' and take a swing at the questions?
U
UKgirevik
Guest
My journey through the martial arts over the last 20 tears has taken me from traditional Karate through Wing Chun , competetive Muay Thai and Escrima. Each step on the way represented an increase in freedom from the rigid Japanese to the free flowing Phillipino arts despite training hard in all these systems there has always been nagging doubt in the back of my mind, I suppose Systema was a logical progression for me.
I think that Systema found me rather than the other way round.
I often wonder what would have happened had I discovered this 10 years ago but I don't think that I would have been ready for it then and may have dismissed it as so many others do purely because it doesn't look like a martial art.
Every time I train the system I get the same buzz as when I first discovered martial arts
Would I ever leave the Systema family, hell no!, I've been freed why would I shackle myself again.
Nick
I think that Systema found me rather than the other way round.
I often wonder what would have happened had I discovered this 10 years ago but I don't think that I would have been ready for it then and may have dismissed it as so many others do purely because it doesn't look like a martial art.
Every time I train the system I get the same buzz as when I first discovered martial arts
Would I ever leave the Systema family, hell no!, I've been freed why would I shackle myself again.
Nick
C
Clive
Guest
You don't step on or step off The System, it is a way of life.
T
Tom Gass
Guest
I was introduced to RMA through Erich. I was looking for something more realistic than the classical arts I had studied over the years. The first time I saw RMA, I was blown away by the movement flow compared to my previous experience. Ive always liked the concept of being able to use the opponents strength against him, the joint locks looked cool, and the class was never the samevery creative. Instead of a lot rote drills that seemed to make no sense, there were a lot of drills designed to develop more sensitivity to contact and learning to apply that sensitivity in a martial way. Of course theres a lot more to it but those were first impressions. I studied it for 3 years. I got away from it kind of by accident. The group that I studied with is offered through a community college so the access is interrupted occasionally by quarters ending and other reasons. And I was a little frustrated with what I perceived my progress. Some good days, some bad days. I still enjoyed the class but I was beginning to wonder where I was going with it. During the summer break when class not in session between quarters, I contacted a guy listed in the ROSS website that lived nearby. We started working out and it turned out he was a world class teacher in tactical combatives. It was a different approach to self-defense than even the RMA I was studying in that it took into account the psychological and emotional issues that are present in a confrontation or self-defense situation. We worked on verbal diffusions, the psychology and emotions that course through one during these situations, and non-violent postures. Its not rocket science and yet hardly anybody practices it. Ive seen from some of the discussions that it is worked on or considered in Systema but it was missing from my other class. And again logistics play into it. Family obligations prevent me from studying as much as I want to so I pick my battles to speak. Occasionally, I am able to get over and work with Brian Kings group and that is always fun and rewarding. I expect I will always continue in Systema as long as it is available in some form and I have my Systema tapes. I like the thought processes behind it. I dont think I would ever get away from it but Ill continue to experiment with other training methodologies. There are good systems and bad systems but the instructor makes a huge difference.
OK the why do you practice Systema question. This is the training methodology that freed up my potential. It allowed me to fail and to succeed at the same instant. It has changed my life. I AM a better person now!
I continue to improve not only my movement but also my understanding of my own humanity and place in this world. It is fun and exciting every time I discover something new about my body and its movements. Every discovery shows me that there is much more to life. With every breath that I now take, I am grateful for it, and I try to use it appropriately as the gift from God that it is. Not greedy with it nor selfish or wasteful.
There are no secrets. Whatever we find here we could have found elsewhere. It is just this methodology vibrates at my frequency, making it more comfortable to seek and find here, than anywhere else that I have so far been able to experience. As far as attaining goes I will let you know if I am ever able to attain anything other than bruises. Everything else is turning out to be onion like. The more I get into something the more levels there are.
Well I dont like thinking along those lines. 1st Maybe If I was killed in some motor vehicle
accident or some other accident. 2nd if the community left me.
Off topic
Tom Gass it is always a pleasure when you walk in the door. Hope to see you again soon.
Erich will be guest instructing Nov 8th so you might want to swing on by.
See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian
I continue to improve not only my movement but also my understanding of my own humanity and place in this world. It is fun and exciting every time I discover something new about my body and its movements. Every discovery shows me that there is much more to life. With every breath that I now take, I am grateful for it, and I try to use it appropriately as the gift from God that it is. Not greedy with it nor selfish or wasteful.
There are no secrets. Whatever we find here we could have found elsewhere. It is just this methodology vibrates at my frequency, making it more comfortable to seek and find here, than anywhere else that I have so far been able to experience. As far as attaining goes I will let you know if I am ever able to attain anything other than bruises. Everything else is turning out to be onion like. The more I get into something the more levels there are.
Well I dont like thinking along those lines. 1st Maybe If I was killed in some motor vehicle
accident or some other accident. 2nd if the community left me.
Off topic
Tom Gass it is always a pleasure when you walk in the door. Hope to see you again soon.
Erich will be guest instructing Nov 8th so you might want to swing on by.
See you on the mat soon
Friends
Brian
Rob,
After chewing the cud on this thread - the only truthful answer is I dont know ask me in 10 years if I am in Systema (do you like the cop out
) - i studied another art for a little while and thought i wouldnt leave it but i did and so who knows ...
After chewing the cud on this thread - the only truthful answer is I dont know ask me in 10 years if I am in Systema (do you like the cop out
) - i studied another art for a little while and thought i wouldnt leave it but i did and so who knows ...
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
After thinking about this for a few days, and not wanting to give the same answer as others I finally have something to add to it.
I was working with a Kenpo black belt at his first class yesterday, we were doing knife work. The particular drill we were doing was, when your partner began to stab you with the knife, you were to move your body in some way as to relieve the pressure from the stab. Then we took the drill to include take downs and this is when the kenpo black belt uttered the words. He said, "oh, your right, I would have gone another direction and it's so obvious which way to go. duh". What he did was this: he was working a disarm and resorted to his kenpo which had me going one way, then right back at him and I stabbed him again. Then I pointed out if he would have just kept on going the direction he had me started in, he had an arm break and takedown in one.
I have uttered those words many times, "it's so obvious", or "it's so simple" and I never did that when I was studying kenpo or TKD. To me that is "why systema", it's so obvious and simple (yet at times so complex).
I was working with a Kenpo black belt at his first class yesterday, we were doing knife work. The particular drill we were doing was, when your partner began to stab you with the knife, you were to move your body in some way as to relieve the pressure from the stab. Then we took the drill to include take downs and this is when the kenpo black belt uttered the words. He said, "oh, your right, I would have gone another direction and it's so obvious which way to go. duh". What he did was this: he was working a disarm and resorted to his kenpo which had me going one way, then right back at him and I stabbed him again. Then I pointed out if he would have just kept on going the direction he had me started in, he had an arm break and takedown in one.
I have uttered those words many times, "it's so obvious", or "it's so simple" and I never did that when I was studying kenpo or TKD. To me that is "why systema", it's so obvious and simple (yet at times so complex).
J
Josh
Guest
Man. Ya'll are lucky. I have seen from ya'lls experiences with it, that's it's a good art. I only like it, cause it's a SHADOW TYPE ART. And an art that really gives you the UPPER hand. I mean dang. Relaxing, Breathing, and moving is good stuff. But unfortuanately, of course, still, i have NO training. I mean, IF i get a chance to learn from SOMEONE, all i can say is, THANK GOD!!!!!!
Jesus LOVES YOU AND ME!!!!
Jesus LOVES YOU AND ME!!!!
K
kage110
Guest
Can a newbie step up the plate on this one?
I have only been around Systema since September last year but already it has had a profound effect on me. I am extremely fortunate to have found someone who has been training in the system for 20 or so years and is a highly skilled fighter and a humble and generous man to boot.
I attended another MA seminar last year and the guy running the show made a passing reference to the 'Russians' and how relaxed they were and suggested that I check them out. I went home and straight on the internet and found Vladimir's (or Arthur's; sorry I cant remember who it belonged to) old forum, did a search for my home town and found my teacher. That forum is gone now so I was extremely lucky to be in the right place at the right time. Or was I....?
My first lesson was incredible: I have never been so effortlessly thrown around in so many different ways, and I have a few years of Judo, jujutsu and ninjutsu training under my belt. I knew exactly what was being done to me but I didn't have a clue how to do it. I have also never laughed so much in training. Interesting enough I have introduced two close MA friends to my instructor and both had just as much trouble as I did, despite having years more experience than I do - that was amusing and it also put the lid firmly down on any doubts that I had about my instructors abilities (because any half decent practitioner could make me look like an idiot but not those two).
Since then I have stumbled my way through session after session slowly, I think, gaining an understanding of what is going on. However, every time I think I am getting somewhere the goal posts get moved and I find myself at square one again. But I am learning something, my whole perception of movement has changed immeasurably and I can see so much more in they way so many martial artists move. Pubs and clubs are changed experiences now as I can feel people around me and when they push past me in a way I never could before.
Being exposed to Systema is the most baffling thing that has ever happened to me, as well as being one of the most enjoyable. Having my eyes opened has not been an entirely pleasant experience as I have come to see everything I thought I knew turned upside down and given a good shake. It has also meant that the martial art I have been pursuing in one form or anther over the last 20 years has lost almost all of its appeal to me. Actually, I don't feel all that sad as how can you be sad when you discover a greater, brighter future?
Why would I ever leave Systema? Well, only if someone could show me a better way of moving, and I cannot imagine how that is physically possible.
Why would I leave the community? Well, other than through the internet I am not really a part of it yet as I am training in isolation at the moment. I hope to meet and train with a few of the people I have 'met' on-line and hopefully I will become even more part of this community in the future. However, if the community goes down the commercial/political route I will be bowing out again though that doesnt mean I will stop training in Systema.
Sorry if I have been a bit long winded, but what can I say, I like to write!
I have only been around Systema since September last year but already it has had a profound effect on me. I am extremely fortunate to have found someone who has been training in the system for 20 or so years and is a highly skilled fighter and a humble and generous man to boot.
I attended another MA seminar last year and the guy running the show made a passing reference to the 'Russians' and how relaxed they were and suggested that I check them out. I went home and straight on the internet and found Vladimir's (or Arthur's; sorry I cant remember who it belonged to) old forum, did a search for my home town and found my teacher. That forum is gone now so I was extremely lucky to be in the right place at the right time. Or was I....?
My first lesson was incredible: I have never been so effortlessly thrown around in so many different ways, and I have a few years of Judo, jujutsu and ninjutsu training under my belt. I knew exactly what was being done to me but I didn't have a clue how to do it. I have also never laughed so much in training. Interesting enough I have introduced two close MA friends to my instructor and both had just as much trouble as I did, despite having years more experience than I do - that was amusing and it also put the lid firmly down on any doubts that I had about my instructors abilities (because any half decent practitioner could make me look like an idiot but not those two).
Since then I have stumbled my way through session after session slowly, I think, gaining an understanding of what is going on. However, every time I think I am getting somewhere the goal posts get moved and I find myself at square one again. But I am learning something, my whole perception of movement has changed immeasurably and I can see so much more in they way so many martial artists move. Pubs and clubs are changed experiences now as I can feel people around me and when they push past me in a way I never could before.
Being exposed to Systema is the most baffling thing that has ever happened to me, as well as being one of the most enjoyable. Having my eyes opened has not been an entirely pleasant experience as I have come to see everything I thought I knew turned upside down and given a good shake. It has also meant that the martial art I have been pursuing in one form or anther over the last 20 years has lost almost all of its appeal to me. Actually, I don't feel all that sad as how can you be sad when you discover a greater, brighter future?
Why would I ever leave Systema? Well, only if someone could show me a better way of moving, and I cannot imagine how that is physically possible.
Why would I leave the community? Well, other than through the internet I am not really a part of it yet as I am training in isolation at the moment. I hope to meet and train with a few of the people I have 'met' on-line and hopefully I will become even more part of this community in the future. However, if the community goes down the commercial/political route I will be bowing out again though that doesnt mean I will stop training in Systema.
Sorry if I have been a bit long winded, but what can I say, I like to write!
C
Clive
Guest
No secnario or topic is too obscure, everything is looked at, then depending on your own slant the opportunity too look deeper is present. :apv:
