Why does everyone mouth off on TKD?

[Bob Hubbard]

"Yes Sir" "More Milk and Cookies Sir?" "Wipe your nose for you Sir?" "Change your Diper for you Sir?"

I mean, whats next? "Congratulations Mrs Murphy, you've given birth to an 7lb 2nd degree BlackBelt. Remember, he gets his 3rd when hes on solid food."

(please note, this isn't a knock at TKD..just the insanity of black belts for kids).

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

I mean, whats next? "Congratulations Mrs Murphy, you've given birth to an 7lb 2nd degree BlackBelt.

Heh! As you say, this is a knock on instructors who have $old out, not on any art. Modern Arnis has a relatively young black belt (early teens, IMAF-Delaney). It can happen in any art and will happen more often in the world's most popular art. Still, even for that it does seem disproportionate in TKD, I must say.

 

[Rob_Broad]

I have tried to be politically correct all day, but this giving a 4 yr old a Junior Instructor title, come on. And the line that is almost as insane is I thought you had to be atleast 6 yrs old for that. Someone needs to give their head a shake. I let 13 yr old be Junior Instructors, but only after they took a special course and they only worked with the really young children and with several qualified instructors in the room.

No wonder people mouth off at TKD. Whats next kids popping out of the womb with 2nd degree Black belts.

 

[Bagatha]

Pffffft!!!! un-REEEEAAALL!! please tell me that was a joke..:soapbox:

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Originally posted by Danny



I disagree. All arts are not created equal. Certainly a good instructor, and dedicated students certainly make the vast majority of difference in any art, but some are just better then others for given purposes.

Give me some examples... I find this highly unlikely.

Tell me, how would one judge an art's effectiveness over another art?? You can't simply match an art against another art??? Martial arts are simply philosophies... nothing is set in stone. Someone must practice the art, inorder to prove its effectiveness, or better yet put the philosophies into action. And with that, all is based on the practioner's decisions, reflexes, and movements... thus, creating an infinite variable.

So how can one style be better than another style? Sorry, I'm just not understanding your point.

:asian: ThuNder_FoOt:asian:

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

I have had some experience with the ATA organization... but I don't think I'll share my experience as I don't it will be beneficial to anyone in this "trash talk" thread.

Suprising to see trash come from TKD players as well.... very amusing. :asian: :asian:

 

[white dragon]

Kirk -

"karatekid1975, unfortunately this was an ITF school. He had a
contract guaranteeing him a black belt in 2 years."

OK first I personally think 2 years is too soon for a blackbelt, but hey I guess it depends on the individual, HOWEVER how can you possibly garantee someone a black belt with a set time limit??? What happens if they only come down once a week, at the end of the two years do you still have to give them the belt?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ThuNder_FoOt

Tell me, how would one judge an art's effectiveness over another art?? You can't simply match an art against another art??? Martial arts are simply philosophies... nothing is set in stone.

There are styles of jujutsu that were designed for battle between two armored fighters, each of which was likely to have a large sword on his left hip. Many of the techniques focus on immobilizing the right hand to prevent a draw of the sword by your opponent. They were probably great for that purpose! Nowadays, what do you think? How about arts that concentrate a good amount of their time on defending attacks that start with both players in seiza (that is, kneeling Japanese-style)? Remember, the quote to which you were responding said better for given purposes.

Many Filipino arts focus on the likelihood of a knife draw. If that's likely, a FMA is a good call. It's said that Canadian trappers in the 1800s developed their own jujutsu-like self-defense method--striking would have been tough with those huge fur jackets they wore. High-kicking arts assume that in your culture you're not likely to be wearing clothes that preclude the use of high kicks.

Some arts are general purpose, but many are specific to some purpose or situation. Some assume you're likely to be smaller than your opponent (snake style kung fu), heavier (sumo), or faster (JKD). (Someone might argue with me over any one of these characterizations.) Some assume you or your opponent are likely to be armed (Sayoc Kali fits both sides of this). Would you want to rely on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in a one-on-one situation? Aikido in a small, tight room?

Lots of arts make assumptions that are likely to be good for some purposes but not for others. The reasons may be historical (some styles of jujtsu), philosophical (aikido), somatic (snake style or sumo), sports-oriented (judo or BJJ being more dueling arts), or something else.

 

[karatekid1975]

Kirk -

"karatekid1975, unfortunately this was an ITF school. He had a
contract guaranteeing him a black belt in 2 years."

Wow! Ok, I thought the ITF was "traditional." Well, we can't judge the org or ***'n for a couple of s**ty dojangs. But still, that is unreal. In my school, it takes roughly 4 to 5 years for BB (longer for kids). And we are WTF. It is also required that anyone under 16 gets a junior BB, and I haven't seen anyone younger then 12 with a junior BB.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by karatekid1975

Wow! Ok, I thought the ITF was "traditional."

I don't know anything about any federation, really. When I was
starting out in TKD, I could care less. I just wanted to learn.

Originally posted by karatekid1975

Well, we can't judge the org or ***'n for a couple of s**ty dojangs.

I totally agree, and if I implied otherwise, I'm sorry. Which
federation is closest to olympic style TKD?

 

[Damian Mavis]

WTF is olympic style TKD. 2 years for black belt in either WTF or ITF is not supposed to happen.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[ThuNder_FoOt]

Originally posted by arnisador



...Lots of arts make assumptions that are likely to be good for some purposes but not for others. The reasons may be historical (some styles of jujtsu), philosophical (aikido), somatic (snake style or sumo), sports-oriented (judo or BJJ being more dueling arts), or something else.

I can understand your point of view. But i can only see this is partial truth. Techniques are always adapted to fit different situations. Just as Bruce Lee took fencing, and adapted it to unarmed combat. It is how a person evolves. On some points, i do agree as arts can be outdated. But even still, that doesn't determine the art's effectiveness in my eyes. Fighters are presented with advantages and disadvantages all the time. Its something one must deal with in order to be effective, no matter what style.

I will believe that some arts may appear to have greater advantages in particular situations, but even then... there are tooo many determining factors, aside from the situation to give that assumption.

:asian:ThunDer_FoOt:asian:

 

[Master of Blades]

The only reason I would say TKD is a load of tripe is cuz its no use in the real world. Firstly you really only use about two kicks in the real life which as far as Im concerned they DONT teach you and you cannot afford to learn Linear! It will not help you when sparring other styles either. I also dont like the fact that all I have to do is jump in a few steps and Ive closed the kicking distance, meaning that unless my opponant is a senior TKD man, hes seriously screwed.

 

[sweeper]

what kicks don't they teach, and what do you mean by "learn linear" ?

 

[Damian Mavis]

I'm still amazed that people don't realise there are 2 styles of TKD. There is olympic style which does not have boxing and then there is ITF which does. So when you talk about closing the gap on an ITF TKD stylist all youll get is punched in the face. Now if youre going to shoot in and do a take down/grapple...then a traditional TKD artist is screwed. Hopefully like everyone else they learn outside their art. Does anyone actually only learn one art nowadays? Seems like its the hip thing to do to learn several arts.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by Master of Blades

The only reason I would say TKD is a load of tripe is cuz its no use in the real world. Firstly you really only use about two kicks in the real life which as far as Im concerned they DONT teach you and you cannot afford to learn Linear! It will not help you when sparring other styles either. I also dont like the fact that all I have to do is jump in a few steps and Ive closed the kicking distance, meaning that unless my opponant is a senior TKD man, hes seriously screwed.

Let me ask you this: have you ever seriously trained in TKD? Have you ever trained with someone with any appreciable time in TKD? Where are you getting this knowledge about TKD? Things you've heard? Read?

Personally, I've never seriously trained in TKD, but I have trained with highly ranked TKD people in the past. One of them has used his TKD kicks in numerous self-defense situations. Successfully.

It's how the individual uses a style that makes a style effective or ineffective. It's not TKD that's ineffective, it's ineffective fighters using TKD badly. As a JKD student, you should heed the words of Bruce Lee, who said, "Man, the creating individual, is more important than any established system or style", or something to that effect.

Good luck with your training, and remember...the mind, like a parachute, works best when open.

:asian:

Cthulhu

 

[karatekid1975]

Amen Cthulhu :asian:

I would like to add to that. When I did TSD, I didn't like TKD, because I thought it was no more than sport. Well, guess where I ended up? TKD. When I started TKD, I was so close-minded that I would actually make fun of the techniques, and compare the two. I wasn't giving TKD a chance (even being a TKD student). I would do my techniques the TSD way, piss people off, and not get anywhere. I'm the type of person who wants to know "why and How" everything works, so my master and instructor explained to me why we do this and that, and how it works. I said "Ok, that makes sence now." I started to open up, and guess what? I really enjoy TKD

As far as WTF not doing punching or self defense, check out my dojang We do it all (including take-downs, ect).

:soapbox: Ok, now I'll get off my soap box (for now).

 

[Damian Mavis]

Yes I know there's schools that practice realistic self defence (like my own). What I was referring to was the style of sparring accepted by the 2 individual federations (ITF & WTF). ITF is similar to kickboxing and WTF is more dynamic, relying on kicking techniques with very little options in punching (only allowed punching to the torso). I'm sure theres thousands of schools in both federations that do all kinds of other stuff, I'm just talking about the federations rules for sparring.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

I'm sure theres thousands of schools in both federations that do all kinds of other stuff, I'm just talking about the federations rules for sparring.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Maybe that could be part of the problem people have with TKD. The WTF has pushed a certainimagine for everyone since they started their campaign to get into the Oylpmics. Rarely do they show the public anything other than their sparring and occaisionally some breaking. Very seldom do they show the public the poomse that is found in WTF. At TKD tournaments they rush through all the events to get to the sparring,and they rush through the color belts to get to the Black Belt sparring.

Maybe it is the public image that the WTF has propigated that has created all the resentment for TKD.

 

[sweeper]

probably, "TKD is not a Martial art, It's a sport" That came out of the mouth of a TKD practitioner I know how was fairly acomplished in tournament fighting. I don't know if he was WTF or ITF, I didn't ask him. But that's one perspective on the matter.