M
That's...creepy. I don't want people to be able to get my address so easily, although I know it's possible on other websites as well. I'm just waiting for the day a deranged former student shows up at my door....
Interesting - esp. to see so many small Kerry contributions, and then every once in a while a big Bush contribution.
Interesting - esp. to see so many small Kerry contributions, and then every once in a while a big Bush contribution.
OP
MisterMike
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #3
Depending on the geo, the Kerry contributions are pretty large too. Check out the color map around southern Cali.
It's also very interesting to note that in my area, executives and wealthy individuals are contributing large amounts to the RNC and Bush Campaign, while self-employed persons, teachers, laborers are contributing small amounts to Democratic candidates and the DNC.
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shesulsa said:
I can understand the teachers. The teachers union tends to go liberal. They're also peeved at the no child left behind act. Because of the vouchers being instituted, teachers have to work harder to make sure that the students actually learn something. They also don't want to have their jobs on the line if a student ends up doing a better job at a private school, while costing the taxpayers less money.
As for laborers, well, unions in general tend to go liberal. I, myself, have never been one for unions. They benefit the people who want to work the least the most. Unions can bring about good things, but they take things too far. You're not allowed to fired slackers because they've been there longer, you can't send job descriptions to doctors so they know what someone has to do at work, and they have no financial accountability to anyone.
As for self-employed people, why the hell would they go with Kerry? He's a guy who votes for every damn tax increase and tried to put a 50 cent a gallon tax on gas. A self employed person could expect a lower profit margin with Kerry.
OP
rmcrobertson
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #6
Yep, teachers and unions. Sources of All Evil in the universe. It's the damn teachers who keep demanding that kids actually learn stuff--those darn Judy Blume books! that dratted evil-lution!--and the damn unions that have the unmitigated gall to--get this!--demand living wages, affordable health care, a safe working conditions.
Those bastards. If they'd just leave the corporations, the fundamentalists, the wealthy, and Rupert Murdoch alone, a man could enjoy himself a little.
I've no idea who my neighbor's supportin'. I figure it's none of my beeswax.
Those bastards. If they'd just leave the corporations, the fundamentalists, the wealthy, and Rupert Murdoch alone, a man could enjoy himself a little.
I've no idea who my neighbor's supportin'. I figure it's none of my beeswax.
This is slightly off the original topic, but - I hear that crap about union workers all the time. Sorry, but I married a union worker the second time and a government worker the first time. Guess which one works his hiney off and which one read comic books for 7 hours of his 8 hour shift? The government worker read comic books. He made darn good money, too, reading his autographed copy of Green Lantern #1. My current husband (the laborer) does the work of three men and then comes home to work some more. I don't see too many non-union workers doing the same thing.
Like your weekends? Thank unions. Like working 8-10 hours per day instead of 16-20? Thank unions. Like cost of living raises? Thank unions. If it weren't for unions, there are people out there who have been putting their blood, sweat and tears into their work for so many years, if they never got a cost of living raise or worked non-union, would max out their salary at about 60-75% and in some cases, 50% of what a union worker makes. Why is it important that laborers make decent wages? Because they consume. When you have a class of people who don't consume crime goes up, interest rates go up, cost of living goes up, the economy suffers, more layoffs occur and now we have even more people who can't consume.
Unions have their place. And when they are finally squashed into oblivian, we will once again depress financially as a nation, then someone will stand up for worker's rights again and they will form once more.
Like your weekends? Thank unions. Like working 8-10 hours per day instead of 16-20? Thank unions. Like cost of living raises? Thank unions. If it weren't for unions, there are people out there who have been putting their blood, sweat and tears into their work for so many years, if they never got a cost of living raise or worked non-union, would max out their salary at about 60-75% and in some cases, 50% of what a union worker makes. Why is it important that laborers make decent wages? Because they consume. When you have a class of people who don't consume crime goes up, interest rates go up, cost of living goes up, the economy suffers, more layoffs occur and now we have even more people who can't consume.
Unions have their place. And when they are finally squashed into oblivian, we will once again depress financially as a nation, then someone will stand up for worker's rights again and they will form once more.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
It may be a little bit drifty, but the intent of the thread was a little ambiguous, so that's no bad. We could discuss the value of unions as a topic unto itself should someone like to start a thread, but I think most here are on the same page with that. Maybe not.
Its interesting to me that they've been able to compile this information and make it searchable in a website. They post this disclaimer:
Its interesting to me that they've been able to compile this information and make it searchable in a website. They post this disclaimer:
How accurate do you feel this is? Not being American, I was unable to really test the engine there. How close do you think it gets? How recent is the info?
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
Maybe if there was universal health insurance, we wouldn't need unions, huh? I'm trying to figure out how to pay the COBRA premium for me and my kids, while my boyfriend's union made sure he gets health and dental insurance.
I'll tell you why a self-employed person would vote for Kerry--because self-employed people want the same things everyone else wants: Health insurance, which s/he, of all people, can't afford. Education for the kids, for which Bush gives only lip service. Affordable fuel, which we don't have. An honest presidential administration, which we don't have. Peace, which we don't have. A solvent economy, which Bush destroyed.
The Bush administration works strictly for large corporations, not for the little guy, self-employed or not.
I'll tell you why a self-employed person would vote for Kerry--because self-employed people want the same things everyone else wants: Health insurance, which s/he, of all people, can't afford. Education for the kids, for which Bush gives only lip service. Affordable fuel, which we don't have. An honest presidential administration, which we don't have. Peace, which we don't have. A solvent economy, which Bush destroyed.
The Bush administration works strictly for large corporations, not for the little guy, self-employed or not.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Feisty Mouse said:
Don't worry, Feisty. I'm very possessive. I shall be the only one to stalk you...I'll allow no others to compete with me in that regard.
By the way...could you move your microwave closer to the refrigerator? When you turn it on, it interferes with the bug I placed in your kitchen.
Regards,
Steve
:roflmao: Oh, of course! Sorry about that microwave mix-up.
On a more serious note, teachers in public schools DO work very hard. Threatening to take even MORE money away from them is ludicrous as a "solution".
The union people I know are extremely hard workers, doing often dangerous jobs. It's easy to ***** about unions when you have job security or are wealthy, I think.
On a more serious note, teachers in public schools DO work very hard. Threatening to take even MORE money away from them is ludicrous as a "solution".
The union people I know are extremely hard workers, doing often dangerous jobs. It's easy to ***** about unions when you have job security or are wealthy, I think.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
This is getting really tiresome. Here's the reality: Ten years ago, when the average price of gasoline was $1.01/gallon, John Kerry supported the idea of a 50 cent tax on gasoline. John Kerry has not espoused this idea in recent years.
Just for the record, N Gregory Mankiw, a Harvard economics professor, called a 50 cent/gal tax on gasoline a great way to fund a 10% overall income tax decrease, and to sustain "more rapid economic growth, less traffic congestion, safer roads, and reduced risk of global warming--all without jeopardizing long-term fiscal solvency."
On March 29, 2003, Dr. N. Gregory Mankiw was appointed by PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH and sworn into office as Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers.
So maybe it wasn't such a bad idea in the first place. Or is somebody watching a little too much Fox News?
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Phoenix44 said:
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
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This one is on topic:
HOLY ****! THERE'S SOMEONE WITH MY NAME WHO CONTRIBUTED TO HOWARD DEAN!! Now this thing is scary....
HOLY ****! THERE'S SOMEONE WITH MY NAME WHO CONTRIBUTED TO HOWARD DEAN!! Now this thing is scary....
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Thank you for returning to topic.
OP
rmcrobertson
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #16
"History has always shown," my foot.
There's an interesting article in today's, "New York Times." Hey, guess what. While Europe has lots of problems, the stats say that they a) work less, b) have comparable or higher productivity rates, c) enjoy life more, d) take more vacations, e) live longer, and remain healthy later in life, f) have higher literacy and lower drug/alcohol rates....oh yes, g) eat better, h) have better access to health and child care.
Much of the reason that Americans vote as they do is that they've bought the Big Lie: working harder and harder to get less and less (our work week's rising, our actual wages are down), so the wealthy and powerful can get more and more, is Good For You. It's why we elect the putzes we elect...Dan Quayle, Bush II, neither of whom appear to've ever done a day's hard work in their lives, both of whom floated through life and college and business on their daddy's connections and their daddy's money.
Part of the reason I'm gonna hold my nose and vote for Kerry is that for all his wealth--well actually, his wife's wealth--he actually took some risks and stood up for something, during and after Vietnam. What'd our current President ever risk? What's he ever stood up for--the right to make sweetheart deals in the oil bidness (three failed companies, if memory serves) and in the stadium-building biz?
As for teachers and union-members being lazy, and lawyers going to court, well, that's part of the Big Lie too. They're not the primary reasons costs go up. Try this: for example, Wellpoint Medical--they're the parent company for Blue Cross--is getting bought out. It's estimated that this will cost ratepayers 200 million over the next few years. Executives will get 60 mil. California's insurance comissioner said no; the companies plan to sue the State.
Or a few years ago in Long Beach, Boeing bought out McDonnell-Douglas. Swore up and down: no layoffs, no lost jobs, they'd keep the plant where it was, just PLEEZE approve the deal. Anybody wanna guess how long that promise lasted?
It never fails to amaze me, the extent to which working people and the members of the lower middle class are willing to vote against their own best interests.
There's an interesting article in today's, "New York Times." Hey, guess what. While Europe has lots of problems, the stats say that they a) work less, b) have comparable or higher productivity rates, c) enjoy life more, d) take more vacations, e) live longer, and remain healthy later in life, f) have higher literacy and lower drug/alcohol rates....oh yes, g) eat better, h) have better access to health and child care.
Much of the reason that Americans vote as they do is that they've bought the Big Lie: working harder and harder to get less and less (our work week's rising, our actual wages are down), so the wealthy and powerful can get more and more, is Good For You. It's why we elect the putzes we elect...Dan Quayle, Bush II, neither of whom appear to've ever done a day's hard work in their lives, both of whom floated through life and college and business on their daddy's connections and their daddy's money.
Part of the reason I'm gonna hold my nose and vote for Kerry is that for all his wealth--well actually, his wife's wealth--he actually took some risks and stood up for something, during and after Vietnam. What'd our current President ever risk? What's he ever stood up for--the right to make sweetheart deals in the oil bidness (three failed companies, if memory serves) and in the stadium-building biz?
As for teachers and union-members being lazy, and lawyers going to court, well, that's part of the Big Lie too. They're not the primary reasons costs go up. Try this: for example, Wellpoint Medical--they're the parent company for Blue Cross--is getting bought out. It's estimated that this will cost ratepayers 200 million over the next few years. Executives will get 60 mil. California's insurance comissioner said no; the companies plan to sue the State.
Or a few years ago in Long Beach, Boeing bought out McDonnell-Douglas. Swore up and down: no layoffs, no lost jobs, they'd keep the plant where it was, just PLEEZE approve the deal. Anybody wanna guess how long that promise lasted?
It never fails to amaze me, the extent to which working people and the members of the lower middle class are willing to vote against their own best interests.
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
Instead of "holding your nose" while voting for Kerry, how about looking at his record, and being proud to cast your vote:
He would close the loopholes that reward corporations taking jobs overseas.
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes.
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex marriage.
Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation.
He would FULLY FUND the mandated education standards
He has voted in favor of every initiative to improve the environment
He has voted in favor of almost every elections reform measure.
He's against cutting or privatizing social security.
He supports separation of church and state.
He has a distinguished military record.
He's actually worked for a living.
The difference between Kerry and Bush is so obvious, let's stop the "nose-holding."
He would close the loopholes that reward corporations taking jobs overseas.
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes.
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex marriage.
Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation.
He would FULLY FUND the mandated education standards
He has voted in favor of every initiative to improve the environment
He has voted in favor of almost every elections reform measure.
He's against cutting or privatizing social security.
He supports separation of church and state.
He has a distinguished military record.
He's actually worked for a living.
The difference between Kerry and Bush is so obvious, let's stop the "nose-holding."
**holding a lit lighter up while reading Phoenix44's post**
Is true.
Is true.
*SOLD* Kerry's got my vote and I'm darn proud of it.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Universal health care sounds great. I admit, where anyone could walk into a hospital and get quality health care right away. However, you need to realize, that somebody has to pay for it. Who will pay for it in this case? The government. Now where does the government get their money? Your taxes. Which means as malpractice insurance rates continue to skyrocket, who's going to have to pay the doctor's salary? That's right, the typical taxpayer.
If you really want to get into healthcare, Kerry himself was out campaigning the day that a cap on medical lawsuits was brought into the senate. He could have worked to pass a vote that could have retarded the increase in health care costs. This went through the senate, and Clinton vetoed on it. Edwards made his money on several medical lawsuits claiming that by not doing a c-section, babies had cerebral palsy. Now, after that rash of lawsuits, women are having to try to find obstetricians like mad. Obstetricians are closing their doors because they can't afford to pay malpractice insurance. There has been a 500% increase in the instances of c-sections. Have the instances of cerebral palsy gone down? No.
These are the people you want to trust with health care?
Actually, yes...I do.
Malpractice caps placed in California and elsewhere did nothing to lower the insurance rates. They continued to skyrocket. Why? The insurance companies base their rates on more than claims from litigants. They've made a huge amount of money off of this. We need to see some regulation of the insurance companies themselves. They benefit from awards caps...and they benefit from ripping off doctors.
I suspect Kerry didn't vote that day because he didn't favor the caps approach on insurance. This is probably why Clinton vetoed it. Clinton's veto alone explains why Kerry didn't need to vote on it (anticipating the President's response).
What other pork was attached to the bill that might have influenced their stance on it? Can you tell me? Can you tell us the name of the bill so we can reference the issue? Who sponsored it? Republicans? Who backed it? The insurance companies? Who backs Republican candidates? The insurance companies? (Actually, they do...I shouldn't have phrased that last one as a question. They're one of Bush's biggest supporters.)
Health care in this country has been championed by the Democratic party since before many on this board were born. If we want to effect efficient health care coverage in this country this is the party to do it.
Sure...we're going to have to pay for it through taxes...but once we start taxing big businesses and the rich like they deserve to be taxed...which is their fair share...it ought not be that big of a problem.
This is the richest nation in the world, and of the industrialized west only we fail to have adequate health care for everyone. That is at best an embarrassment, and at worst it is a disgrace. We will never reach our economic potential without taking ourselves to task and doing right by our citizens.
Regards,
Steve
If you really want to get into healthcare, Kerry himself was out campaigning the day that a cap on medical lawsuits was brought into the senate. He could have worked to pass a vote that could have retarded the increase in health care costs. This went through the senate, and Clinton vetoed on it. Edwards made his money on several medical lawsuits claiming that by not doing a c-section, babies had cerebral palsy. Now, after that rash of lawsuits, women are having to try to find obstetricians like mad. Obstetricians are closing their doors because they can't afford to pay malpractice insurance. There has been a 500% increase in the instances of c-sections. Have the instances of cerebral palsy gone down? No.
These are the people you want to trust with health care?
Actually, yes...I do.
Malpractice caps placed in California and elsewhere did nothing to lower the insurance rates. They continued to skyrocket. Why? The insurance companies base their rates on more than claims from litigants. They've made a huge amount of money off of this. We need to see some regulation of the insurance companies themselves. They benefit from awards caps...and they benefit from ripping off doctors.
I suspect Kerry didn't vote that day because he didn't favor the caps approach on insurance. This is probably why Clinton vetoed it. Clinton's veto alone explains why Kerry didn't need to vote on it (anticipating the President's response).
What other pork was attached to the bill that might have influenced their stance on it? Can you tell me? Can you tell us the name of the bill so we can reference the issue? Who sponsored it? Republicans? Who backed it? The insurance companies? Who backs Republican candidates? The insurance companies? (Actually, they do...I shouldn't have phrased that last one as a question. They're one of Bush's biggest supporters.)
Health care in this country has been championed by the Democratic party since before many on this board were born. If we want to effect efficient health care coverage in this country this is the party to do it.
Sure...we're going to have to pay for it through taxes...but once we start taxing big businesses and the rich like they deserve to be taxed...which is their fair share...it ought not be that big of a problem.
This is the richest nation in the world, and of the industrialized west only we fail to have adequate health care for everyone. That is at best an embarrassment, and at worst it is a disgrace. We will never reach our economic potential without taking ourselves to task and doing right by our citizens.
Regards,
Steve
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