White Crane first form (San Zhan)

Discussion in 'Members in Motion' started by Midnight-shadow, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    This is the first form in the system that I'm practicing in preparation for my grading next month. Any advice would be greatly appreciated


     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm a Tibetan crane guy, so can't comment on the Fukien methods, but glad to know another crane guy.
     
  3. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    Does the Tibetan Crane style have a San Zhan form? I'd love to see it for comparison. I've seen the Yongchun San Zhan and it's quite different to ours as it doesn't have the tiger elements to it (it is pure crane whereas ours is tiger-crane combination).
     
  4. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Nope, the methodology is really quite different, very very long fist method.
     
  5. Tames D

    Tames D RECKLESS

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    I'm not a white Crane practitioner, but thanks for posting the video.
     
  6. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    I see, very interesting. So completely different to my style that is very close combat orientated.
     
  7. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    The best advise would come from your instructor. Details are important and every instructor would have minor variations. As example in your stepping you are making the step then doing an extra move with the other foot. i have never seen that before. I did notice that your shoulders tend to rise up at certain points.
     
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  8. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    The kick-step with the back leg is something unique to the style I do, you don't really see it in any other white crane style. Not quite sure why we do it but oh well haha.
     
  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    It's more a lineage thing than the style. But there is nothing wrong with that. I was only pointing out it would be difficult for others to give advise since we may do it different.
     
  10. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    Fair point. Still, if anyone has a different lineage or style of White Crane and wants to input on the form itself (I feel I do a pretty good representation of it, at least on a basic level) that would be cool. That said, it's rather hard to see the essence of the style in this simple form (it is the first one in the system after all) so hopefully when I pass my grading and learn the next form, I'll post that too and get some discussion going on the different styles and lineages of white crane.
     
  11. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Looks good, Midnight. I think you're going to do just fine in your upcoming grading.
     
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  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I actually believe that a form like this one is a perfect illustration of the approach that you system takes. You don't need the more advanced ones. The basic level stuff is always the best. Sometimes the advanced stuff can just become clutter.
     
  13. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    I see where you're coming from here, although from what I've seen, the second form in our system is a lot better representation than this one, as it contains all the stances and signature blocks of the style, which this one doesn't.
     
  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    There is always more, in terms of techniques, combinations, etc. however, the real essence is not in the body of techniques, but rather in the principles upon which the system is built and which are exemplified by the techniques. In other words, if the system is well designed, then when you practice your techniques you are actually reinforcing your principles; the techniques are the principles in action. In this way, if you understand the principles, you can apply them to any technique, even if adopted from a different system, or even if it is simply a movement and not even a proper technique. That "movement" can become a devastating technique, if driven by the principles.

    In our system, the first form is Lok Lik Kuen, six powers fist. It is very simple, appears to be only six different basic punches, each done marching down and return, in a line. However, there is much more to it than that. Each of those six basic punches exemplifies the foundational principles, and in a simple design like this form is, those principles are very clear and it isn't muddied by complicated and "advanced" stuff. Working this form is really drilling the hell out of our fundamental principles, and that is far more important than working through a list of "advanced" techniques and fancy or complicated combinations. It is an extremely valuable form, as a training tool BECAUSE it is simple and direct and devoid of complex stuff, and that illustrates the essence of our system much more clearly.
     
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  15. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    thought i might add some other versions.

    this is master LI kong. it is my favorite version. his form is really great.
     
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  16. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I agree with Buka, you look like you have worked hard and seem to be giving a lot of attention to doing your movements with precision. That should serve you well.

    Now, as a caveat, let me say that I do not know anything about Fukien White Crane (any lineage) save the examples I've seen on youtube, which I've viewed since some researchers feel that Yong Chun Bai He (Wing Chun Bak Hok) may be one of the ancestors of my style, Wing Chun.

    After viewing the videos of the other White Crane stylists posted by Hoshin, I would agree with the following observation:
    Another thing, in both clips, but especially the first, you can see a strong contrast between controlled tension and relaxation that is typical of many TCMAs (including my own).
    Notice the obvious looseness of the limbs in the first video ("White Crane San Zhan") each time he snaps out his arms in that double palm-down strike (at 0:06, 0:12, 0:18, etc.).

    Also notice the subtle rising pulse of energy, like a ripple coming up from his legs, then the hips, the spine ...all the way out through his fingers. It really looks like there's some relaxed power there. I don't know if your lineage does it that way, but if they do, I'd pay attention to that! ;)
     
  17. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 3rd Black Belt

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    Thank you Buka and geezer for the kind words, it means a lot. There is definitely a connection between Fujian White Crane and Wing Chun, as showcased in this video:



    The hand and wrist movements, particularly at the start of the form are very similar to Wing Chun. In terms of the tension and relaxation, that's definitely something I need to work on, as I am very tense through the entire form. I need to learn to relax my body and only tense up at the appropriate moments. This is what the breathing is for. Unlike most other styles I've seen, that breath out when they strike to increase the explosive power, we breath in and then hold our breath through the strike to keep our body tense for the impact and a possible counter, then breath out to relax and be able to move.
     
  18. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    Maybe the breath is causing your shoulders to rise when you hold the breath. for what I do, the breath would be held but "sunk down " to the dan tien.123
     

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