what is tkd.......??

[Kong Soo Do]

You stated that your lineage was through the Han Moo Kwan. The founder of the Han Moo Kwan credits his teacher as GM CHUN Sang Sup, not Dr. YOON Kwe Byung. So Dr. Yoon is not in your lineage.

My research indicates that he was a part of our lineage. Lee officially does not credit affliation with the Jidokwan, but as stated, my research indicates otherwise.

Unfortunately, Korean history is rife with re-writes. So it is very difficult to be precise on every point of one's research. Years ago I sent my lineage research off to several different KMA's individuals (as well as JMA/CMA) to look over and offer input and corrections. The result is what we know have. Again, very difficult to be absolutely precise due to certain...shall we say 'historical revamps' but at some point one has to go with what they have. It is what it is.

I appreciate your interest.

 

[puunui]

Kong Soo Do is a name that come from our lineage that we wished to re-identify with. Dr. Yoon Kwe Byung studied Shito Ryu under Kenwa Manbuni who was a police officer as well and was quite proficient in the SD aspects of the art.

Mabuni Sensei (not Manbuni) was a police officer for a very short while when he was around 18 years old in Okinawa. When he moved to Japan, he no longer did that. Instead, he spent his time attempting to gain acceptance for Okinawan Karate along the same lines as Kendo and Judo, and therefore spent a lot of his time in Japan developing Karate for competition purposes. His student, Dr. YOON Kwe Byung, also believed in competition karate and did his part in fostering competition by leading the first Japan Korea exchanges, his Japanese counterparts also being from Mabuni Sensei's lineage. His kwan, the Jidokwan was famous, not for self defense, but the skill and ability of their competitors. Dr. Yoon was the one who was leading the charge for competition in Taekwondo in Korea during the 1950's and early 1960's.

Besides that, he is not even in your lineage, as the Han Moo Kwan founder, who is still alive, states that his teacher and his root is with GM CHUN Sang Sup and the Chosun Yun Moo Kwan Kwon Bup Bu program, not the Jidokwan or Kong Soo Do. GM Chun never used the term Kong Soo Do to describe his art, it was always Kwon Bup only. So says GM LEE Kyo Yun, the founder of the Han Moo Kwan, among others.

 

[puunui]

My research indicates that he was a part of our lineage. Lee officially does not credit affliation with the Jidokwan, but as stated, my research indicates otherwise.

What research? Google searches and webpages? I saw your webpage and I can tell you exactly which webpages or sources you got your information from, which ironically include me. I don't consider cutting and pasting from other people's webpages which you found on a google search to be "research".

Unfortunately, Korean history is rife with re-writes. So it is very difficult to be precise on every point of one's research. Years ago I sent my lineage research off to several different KMA's individuals (as well as JMA/CMA) to look over and offer input and corrections. The result is what we know have. Again, very difficult to be absolutely precise due to certain...shall we say 'historical revamps' but at some point one has to go with what they have. It is what it is.

I can understand your perspective, if your only efforts at "research" consists of google searches.

However, that hasn't been my experience. I find that the stories from the pioneer's lips are all remarkably consistent. They all pretty much say the same thing, including Han Moo Kwan founder GM LEE Kyo Yun, who would disagree with you and your "research". Was he one of the people that you sent your "lineage research" to?

 

[puunui]

Back when I had a regular school I had an eye-opener. My friend and fellow Deputy had a daughter that was a 2nd Dan in Olympic Taekwondo. And she was GOOD! She had trophies bigger than her. She had so many they were thinking about adding a room to the house just to house them. Yes, she was THAT good. He brought her to me for some good ole fashion self-defense training. I was demonstrating a balance displacement technique that I normally show yellow belt level students. Her eyes got as big as dinner plates as she nervously stated, ‘we have to actually put our hands on someone’? She was a legite 2nd Dan in her art yet had never once actually gone hands on with someone. It was all flashy kicks, glow-in-the-dark weapons and musical kata. As a 2nd Dan, she had no clue how to defend herself.

"Olympic" Taekwondo does not award trophies at its tournaments. Also there are no glow in the dark weapons, although musical poomsae (not kata) is starting to develop. And there is a lot of "hands on" in Taekwondo competition sparring. This tells me that you have never seen "Olympic" Taekwondo, or at the very least, have a very erroneous view of it.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

What research? Google searches and webpages?

No, I used almost nothing from the web actually. I think you are now engaging in debators tactics because you are a bit bent-out-of-shape by our disagreement on self defense vs. sport training. This is why your spreading out your comments in different threads (which actually don't have much to do with what your talking about).

I used the JAMA publications, interviews (in person or written), as many various older books on TKD, HKD, Shuri Te, Shorin Ryu, Shotokan etc as I could put my hands on. I spoke with different practitioner here in the U.S. as well as overseas. As I mentioned in the other thread you've hijacked, I'm comfortable with their evaluation and comments. If you're not...well that's a shame. But you pouting isn't going to change what we do or how we do it.

I would suggest, rather than hijacking multiple threads, simply take it to email, PM or start your own thread. But stick with what's really bugging you, our difference of opinion on SD vs. sport training.