What is Jeet Kune Do, article by Bruce Lee

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by Xue Sheng, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Liberate Yourself From Classical Karate by Bruce Lee

    Article from the Bruce Lee Foundation
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Martial D

    Martial D 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    58
  3. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Why?

    Bruce Lee had it all written out, in theory. In practical sense it turns out to be different.
     
  4. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    What exactly turns out to be different?
     
  5. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I don't mean to be disrespectfull, but Bruce Lee didn't do anything new, he pretended that he invented the wheel but there were so many people before him that had his way of thinking.

    To give you an exact example, is that the JKD he preached was about freedom of expression. The JKD that is taught nowadays (at least here in Holland), comes from Ted Wong. His students here train a rigid set of drills that have nothing to do with that freedom.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Yes, I am aware of that, you can find things from Sun Lutang and Wang Xiangzhai that are similar, But your statement was "Bruce Lee had it all written out, in theory. In practical sense it turns out to be different."

    My question is, In what practical sense does it turn out to be different?

     
  7. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Read my edit, we just crossed the beams...:eek:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    There are different schools of thought and practice for JKD and you are correct, it has become a "style" which if you read Bruce Lee, what he said and what is being done by some, are not the same. But you have to start somewhere and I am of the belief that what Bruce Lee taught is what should be learned and then what you do with it from there is up to you. There is the Dan Inosanto side of things where it evolves as it goes along and what he ultimately ends up teaching you as JKD, is outside of what Bruce Lee originally taught, although he does start you there. There is Concepts vs Philosophy and to be honest I am not sure who is on what side of that fence, and I am not sure it even matters. I do know Ted Wong and Dan Inosanto are on opposite sides of that fence.

    I trained JKD only briefly and it was on the Ted Wong, Jerry Poteet side of the fence and it taught me a awful lot about the martial arts I trained, especially Xingyiquan. However I did wrestle with this quote from Bruce Lee for a bit

    At first it made me think that Bruce Lee himself would be displeased at all the JKD schools around, but then I thought about it, someone has to help you build the boat to get across, and I am very happy there are those out there, legitimately trained in JKD to hep with that. After that, what you do with it is what makes the difference.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    889
    Trophy Points:
    253
    "It is conceivable that a long time ago a certain martial artist discovered some partial truth. During his lifetime, the man resisted the temptation to organize this partial truth, although this is a common tendency in man’s search for security and certainty in life. After his death his students took “his” hypothesis, “his” postulates, “his” inclination, and “his” method and turned them into law. Impressive creeds were then invented, solemn reinforcing ceremonies prescribed, rigid philosophy and patterns formulated, and so on, until finally an institution was erected. So, what originated as one man’s institution of some sort of personal fluidity has been transformed into solidified, fixed knowledge, complete with organized classified responses presented in a logical order. In so doing, the well-meaning, loyal followers have not only made this knowledge a holy shrine, but also a tomb in which they have buried the founder’s wisdom."

    yes he had it all written out , exactly what would happen to his teachings after he died.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Martial D

    Martial D 3rd Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I don't mean the jkd bits in specific, more the bits about how alive fighting styles tend to be crystalized until their usefulness becomes either marginalized or negligible. Indeed, the irony is that this situation became the reality too for JKD following Lee's death.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    The fact remains, Bruce Lee was an overhyped actor that did some martial arts (the Wing Chun community claims he didn't get far), then used that celeb status to write a book about his own thoughts on martial arts.

    I know alot of Americans idolize him and think he's an icon, in Europe however we have far greater icons if you compare Bruce Lee with people like Jon Bluming, Tom Harinck and Peter Smit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  12. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    I don't think that is a fact actually. He was an actor, he was rather skilled, he trained Wing Chun and there is not a consensus as to how far he got, the only thing that is certain is he did not complete the entire curriculum and there are various reasons stated for that, there is also some indication that he planned on going back to finish, but he died before that happened.

    He also studied a lot of other arts to come up with JKD and had an eye for figuring thing out (I have personally known MAist that were good at that so he is not alone there). And in the 60s, even the late 60s, Asian actors were not that big a deal in the west, they were pretty much second class citizens in hollywood. We are looking at him in the rear view mirror and making judgements, but he was not the big name then like he is now. But with that said, one of his goals, with his movies, was to highlight JKD. He had to Hong Kong to have a successful movie career and there he was a Big Deal, but not so much in the West until after his death.

    He was a rather talented martial artist and there are many talented martial artists from that time who say exactly that (Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, etc.). Are there others equally as talented or even more talented? Yes there are. But I think there is a tendency these days to either deify Bruce Lee or Vilify him and to be honest I don't think either is the way to go and I think much of it is for self promotion and gets right back to what he was talking about... and that is pretty much what Bruce Lee was saying when he wrote, in his article

    That I talked about in my blog

    Read, try not to judge, learn, try not to judge and then once you have done that take what you think is useful and discard the rest.... that is pretty much what Bruce Lee's JKD philosophy seems to be about.

    As to what others made of him after his death... he has no control over
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Planet X
    You have to be free, yet the way Bruce taught was almost the opposite...

    -the on guard position
    -the techniques
    -chi Sao

    Whether you like it or not, Bruce taught a system, and all that be free mumbo jumbo doesn't work when you are trying to pass something down.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Yes he did, but I think he was trying to avoid that, although I would not call it mumbo jumbo, I do not see how that is possible if you want to get your point/style of fighting across.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,956
    Likes Received:
    889
    Trophy Points:
    253
    so apparently your not a Bruce Lee fan, thats ok. but your statement is a bit off. being an "icon" as you say, has more to do with influence and social recognition and less to do with martial art rank and accomplishments.
    i have never heard of the three guys you mention... but you have heard of Bruce Lee,,,. so who is more famous? Bruce Lee has permeated the culture like no other martial artist in history. your statement that Europe has greater icons is not really true. sure Jon Bluming (had to google him) is a legit 10th dan, ok so what,,,i know and train with 5 different legit Okinawan ranked 10th dans here in America. frankly, its not that special. its something i will never achieve but the point is being a 10th dan and having some remarkable accomplishments in your past does not make you an icon. now if you want to say Jon was a better martial artist , well thats a different argument and could very well be true.
    John Wayne was an icon but to be honest his acting wasnt that good. Mcdonalds is an icon but there burgers kinda suck. i think your confusing icon with something else.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    26,595
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    :eek: his acting wasnt that good!!!!!



    :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    6,789
    Likes Received:
    3,925
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    Oh goody, more "Bruce Lee sucked" stuff.

    Cut the guy some slack, he was just a kid when he died. Had a hell of a positive impact on the arts in general, especially here in America.

    I'm thankful he did. Would have loved to have met the man.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Planet X
    I agree, what he said was mainly air, a punch is a punch, a good combo is a good combo. There is no "my combo" and "your combo". If I teach you "my combo" is it passing on tradition? Of course not. It's passing on a combo that works.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Malos1979

    Malos1979 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Netherlands
    It's not about being a fan or not.

    John Bluming is a legit martial artist and teacher, the guy has way more martial arts experience under his belt than Bruce Lee.

    The fact that you didn't heard of them proves my point actually, that Bruce Lee used his actor status to win people over for his JKD which is in my opinion still not a bad system as it is but it isn't the system Lee preached it to be.
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,928
    Likes Received:
    2,787
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Tried to lead a collaborative effort. Which you kind of can't. You just have to be part of one.
     

Share This Page