What is it with reality systems and hip throws?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by drop bear, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    I think I speak for everyone here when I say.....Nobody wants to hear about your love life.......;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,022
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Trophy Points:
    263
    All of this talk of throwing has got me excited so here's what I did with that excitement enjoy.




    This one is for you Wang
     
  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,022
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Here's some more


    I probably would have kicked him in the balls afterwards. From first looks, the throw seems to be an A-hole move. It's one thing to do it on a padded service and totally dangerous to do the throw on a hard floor.


     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    You have to undersand when you say pressure points I see this in my head.



    I mean if you are doing something different. Thats cool.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,022
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Ok I'm assuming that this is now an expectation for an African Butt Whooping. I have now seen this technique done 3 times by 3 different people and it always ends the same way. Face meets ground.

    and now I know why


     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    I was trying to find some live Mc map. They don't seem to do a heap of live stand up.

    Here is some MACP. who seem to do more.


    Double underhooks. Double leg takedowns. Basic high percentage stuff.
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    It is not that it doesn't work. I wrote it works. My issue is it is super high risk to get wrong. Judo guys can flip me all over the place with that sort of stuff.

    Head kicks work. But if I only have three or four weeks to train a guy and they can't already do head kicks. I probably wouldn't start.



    By the way snuck in that vid was a failed hip throw.
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    1,482
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    If you use kick and punch, also move in through an angle so you don't have to turn, you can reduce your risk to the minimum.

     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Brian King

    Brian King Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,487
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Bellevue, Washington USA
    Great, I love to see your passion. I am glad that you are so into this that you are spending time telling folks what you think will work and what you think are better options. Now, go out and prove it. Otherwise you are just another person spouting theories while disagreeing with the organizations that actually put the systems into place after backing up their theories with hard won experiences. Stay awake for hours and hours while fasting, put on the gear, have people grab you, swing rifles at your head, try to poke you in the chest with bayonet. See what techniques work for you during melee's. Then realize you have very limited time in which to get a lot of life saving and life taking positive training results for your team mates. For every minute of training you must get several minutes or more of value out of it. This will require you to compromise on many subjects. Once you find what works for you under those circumstances and in those environments then grab a hundred untrained personal and put them thru the same physical and mental stressors and test your theories on what works under those type of conditions. Do your theories work for them as well as you? Refine and recruit. I am sure that there are training opportunities within your countries militaries for you to offer proven results. Until then - you asked a question - you received answers...then you argued over the answers you received? Pity that and all the wasted talking about doing.
    Good luck
    Regards
    Brian King
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,022
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Trophy Points:
    263
    This looks more like how my throws come about. Doing something else and then suddenly realize "Hey, here's a throw." The only time I plan a throw is if that's all that I'm working on. That is also a safer way to utilize the throw. Make sure that your opponent has very few options to take advantage of in the event that you mess up. Even if that person messed up with the throw, there would be very little that the other person could have done to capitalize on it. A technique should always minimize the risk associated with application of it. I know in some sporting events this is not the case which may explain the variance of how some people approach the hip throw. If you are in a non MMA competition then you pretty much don't have to worry about someone beating the crap out of you after you mess up on a technique. So it's more of a luxury to do things that otherwise would be dangerous to do in a real fight in the street.
     
  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    6,022
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I was just showing how some good throws. I always like to see people who can pull off techniques. During my search I also came across some that were failed hip throw attempts which speaks more to the points you were bringing up. The important thing to know is where one's limits begin and end based on who they are facing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    6,087
    Likes Received:
    1,482
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
    You can take that risk and bait your opponent to pull you down backward, you then borrow his force, take him down, and give him a top mount. Whenever that you train how to throw your opponent forward, you should also train how to throw him backward. Your opponent's backward pulling can be your advantage.

    If your opponent doesn't want to be thrown forward, but he doesn't mind to be thrown backward, you should help him to satisfy his wish.

    All throws should be trained in pairs that work in opposite directions.



    Here is another example.

     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That clip shows one of the things I like about a hip throw. You can have both hands on his upper body (arms, etc.) and never have to release from the set-up through the end of the throw. If you have control (as Dale shows there), there's little risk when you turn your back.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Seoi nage tends to do that - even happens in Judo competition. We have a technique that uses some similar principles, but we practice it with a pivot, which helps with the fall.
     
  15. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,297
    Likes Received:
    243
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    Why not throw from squirrel grip?(love that term). Pretty easy to off balance someone to get them on their toes, easy enough to do a modified shoulder throw while maintaining that grip.
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Firemans carry?
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Which I imagine is how these techniques get there in the first place. Someone suggests an issue but is wrong because because he isn't the instructor.
     
  18. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    3,443
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    A basic hip throw (o goshi or koshi guruma) is one of the simplest throws to learn the basic body mechanics for. You don't see it so much in grappling competition because it's tricky to get the setup against a skilled grappler, but against a pure striker or untrained person the opportunities can come up. Before I trained in Judo I would occasionally land a hip throw in sparring against karate and Kung fu practitioners and at that point I was mostly self-taught on the technique.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,870
    Likes Received:
    3,443
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Both MCMAP and the MACP have standup sparring and competitions, although not all soldiers or marines go past the minimum required training to participate at that level.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,380
    Likes Received:
    3,379
    Trophy Points:
    308
    So I can't mock marines by telling them they grapple from their knees?

    It was mostly to see if they were pulling off hip throws live. Because I am a machine at hip throws in drills. But as soon as people shift their hip I get caught.

    I saw some of the MACP comps which looked pretty decent. But i doubt all of those guys have been training for a few weeks either
     

Share This Page