What are the Best, Quick Fight Stoppers?

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by DavyKOTWF, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Why are all such contests seemingly of physically unequal combatants, bigger guy with longer reach knocks older smaller guy over, is not headline news,

    It was more or less impossible for the wing chin guy to land a punch, such was the reach disadvantage, there's only really one likely out come, in that situation,
     
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  2. DanT

    DanT 2nd Black Belt

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    Lead hook to the jaw is the most common quick fight ender and was always my go-to when people are running their mouth and escalating a situation.
     
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  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    This isn't about the quality of the training, although that's another factor. It's about the inherent limitation of all training, good, better, or otherwise.
     
  4. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    A haymaker isn't a good reliable move for anything really.

    Sure it's got power, but it gets that from momentum. It takes ages.

    A straight punch is fast, if someone knows how to throw one you're likely hit before you realise.

    A haymaker by itself - once it starts you've got time to go have a cup of tea, a cigarette, watch a bit of youtube, have a nap - and then block or move.
     
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  5. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Also..a haymaker? isnt that what unskilled cowboys use for saloon fights?

    If we are talking straight lines vs circular lines, why not compare something useful like a proper hook?(which is still a beat slower than a straight, but still...)
     
  6. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Only because i remember this exact conversation occurring a while back...when he says haymaker, hes referring to a punch that no one else would call or consider a haymaker.
     
  7. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge 2nd Black Belt

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    See I thought it was about "what is your best one move fight ender?" Which I don't think is a very good question and my response explained why. Then inexplicably KFW posted a YouTube video of two guys who we know nothing about sparring and one getting knocked out. His position is that a haymaker beats and wing chun straight punch ... which exactly no one was talking about. I watching that video and it seems to be in Asia and someone who seems to not be Asian and seems not to have first hand knowledge of the fighters commentated over it and kept referring to this guy as a "wing chun master" and a "sifu". My take is that this guy is neither. I'm not sure what either of their backgrounds is or what was going on here, but I could fight critique it too. His hands were down. I saw no evidence of any decernable footwork or a stance. He was managing range completely wrong for what he was trying to do and it didn't even look like he was throwing Wing Chun punches, just straight punches. Now we're explaining that away by saying "all Wing Chun people look like that when they try to fight." I have a 2nd year student who routinely does better than that. I'm not claiming superiority and never do, but these YouTube videos are just stupid.

    And, NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT WING CHUN VS ANYTHING. Read the OP and if you don't like the question and don't want to participate, then walk away from it. I regret having posted to this thread, but why turn this into a WC vs discussion? Don't we have enough of those already?
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This the way that I will use a hay-maker. Here is an example that you can use it for defense. You can use it to protect your center from outside in. If you can use it well, there is no way that your opponent can come in close to you.

     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  9. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Yeah, I remembered that, just not who...

    I was even involved in one of the discussions.

    And also yeah.

    That's not a haymaker.

    Here you go, this is what everyone else in the world calls a haymaker - skip to 16 seconds if you can't wait that long.

     
  10. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    That is not a haymaker punch though.

    A haymaker is so named because it's a straight armed round punch that sort of looks like you are trying to scythe down tall grass, hence 'making hay'

     
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This remind me a story. A father drew a short line on the ground and told his son that it's a "1". The father then drew a large line and asked his son what it was. The son said, "I don't know." The father said, "It's still a 1". The son then said, "How come suddenly 1 has grown so big?"

    Does hay-maker always have to travel that much distance?

    This is what I'll call a "hay-maker". You use spinning footwork to move yourself out of your opponent's striking path. You then hit on the side (or back) of your opponent's head.

     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  12. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Lol. That video...

    That isn't really a haymaker either, it's more of a straight right with an exagerated wind up. If that were following a circular line that response wouldn't really work as he described. Also never seen anyone move fast enough to sidestep a punch and catch a over under from behind, but ok.

    Anyway this has nothing to do with anything. Carry on.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I think you're projecting a lot of stuff into my posts that aren't there . you said his wing chun was terrible . I said you can't tell one way or the other from the video . then i explained why I think that.

    In fact, my last post was to clarify that my point was not about the quality or nature of the training. I didn't mention wc at all. My point was about knowing how to do things vs doing things.
     
  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Apart from the twirling, that's more like just a hook.

    As said, a haymaker gets it's name from the movement, like scything long grass.

    I have a scythe, and it doesn't work with small movements - you can't make hay with small cuts (it's hugely inefficient to try to operate a scythe in that manner).

    Want smaller swings? Use a riphook.

    Ergo, a smaller movement isn't a haymaker, it's a hook.
     
  15. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge 2nd Black Belt

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    Fair enough. Peace.

    I was really reacting to why was this video even relevant to this thread in the first place? Just need to walk away for a while.
     
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  16. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    No worries.
     
  17. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Chokes stop fights real fast.
     
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  18. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    I think it was just meant to illustrate circular punches beating straight punches .I think the fact it was a WC guy was incidental.
     
  19. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    The description under that vid says "Basic Self Defense: The haymaker is a big overhand punch that untrained fighters use to knock out their opponent."

    That guy in the red got one thing right, he's an untrained fighter.
     
  20. FriedRice

    FriedRice Master Black Belt

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    Didn't Bruce Lee fail and ran out of town after this fight.....when Jack Man Wong challenged him to a 2nd fight to settle the dispute as to who won the 1st......in public with witnesses instead of behind closed doors like the 1st fight? Wong even place an ad in the local Chinese newspaper challenging Bruce.123
     

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