You're Walking Down a Dark Alley - Semi Sucker Punch?

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by DavyKOTWF, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. DavyKOTWF

    DavyKOTWF Orange Belt

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    You got off work late. It's dark outside. You always walk home but know of a shortcut down a little used dark alley. So to save time, you take the shortcut. You've walked the 70 yards and are about to come out on to the well lit sidewalk, just a minute from your home.
    A couple of shadowy men step out to block your exit. You, in a loud voice, say "hello fellas, how's it going?", and keep walking confidently toward them and to the lit area. One guy raises his hands in a boxing, on guard position. There are 3 or 4 other people standing by the light pole and are watching what's going down.
    Do you sucker punch the guy who went into a fighting stance? (you're close enough by the way, for a quick centerline punch, and know you could do this) Is this legal? Just because the guy posed a fighting stance, is it legal and/or right to just take him out right there? Should you worry about the bystanders saying, all they saw was you taking the first swing or punch? Should you not even worry about what's legal at this point or bystanders and act fast anyway?
     
  2. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    I strike. If you wait for him to move first you'll have bigger problems than the law.
     
  3. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    When one asks for trouble one usually finds it.
     
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  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Punch them if you want.
     
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  5. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Not a sucker punch.

    Individual took an aggressive stance understood by any reasonable person to precede an attack. Giving you justification to defend yourself by striking out.
     
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  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    By the way the witnesses are probably friends of the attacker. So as far as the law is concerned he was walking down the alley reading the bible when you hit him for no reason.
     
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  7. axelb

    axelb Yellow Belt

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    I get a taxi or drive home late at night.
     
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  8. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I'd pull guard.
     
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  9. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    I'd be like.....

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    One of the biggest things about self defence is to know not to walk down dark alleys
     
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  11. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    People who are going to attack you dont jump out if the darkness in front of you and take up a boxing stance, never, pull a knife perhaps, does the guy think your someone else who is going to attack him,?

    If this, or something like this did happen, then your problem is the other guy, going behind you, and the fact he is in a gaurd, mean actually hitting him may not be that easy, he is " on guard" after all,

    I think the best course of action is a quick sprint and a side step, get to the street and then reconsider, when they have to come towards you, to attack, rather than wait for you to walk towards them, idf the alkey is to narrow for that, then walking backwards away from them, to keep them both in front of you, seems sensible, and the people watching may well be with them anyway
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Lol. I have never walked down a dark alley before. Big No, No.

    But if I did. I would watch both the actions of the guy in front of me and the actions of the other guys standing by. If something is up then his friends will give away the real intent. If they aren't his friends then they may be my way out of a bad situation. I definitely wouldn't go back into the dark alley.

    I would create distance and maintain distance that would allow me to best see a possible attack or weapon. At this point I probably would have scanned the environment extensively and I would be on high alert.

    This is about all that I can realistically say because it's not a situation I would have put myself in. I've walked dark streets before and I carried myself as if I might be a threat. This made people less willing to approach me at night on a dark street.

    A dark street gives me more options in comparison to an alley. When I think of an Alley I think of a Trap Door Spider waiting to pull me in and make my day horrible.
     
  13. DavyKOTWF

    DavyKOTWF Orange Belt

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    The question was posed in the light of this being a JKD sub forum. Where one is taught to intercept violence with a strike and end the fight quickly and efficiently. Just the fact the guy is throwing up his hands in a fighting stance, means the fight it on. I used Semi Sucker Punch in the title, aware it might not be a 100% sucker punch, but could be considered such, but the threatening guy with hands up, would most likely NOT be aware what you could do; that is, take him out with one, quick, unexpected and surprise punch. I mentioned you WERE within close, medium striking distance. Do you or don't you? For me, yes. Then the other guy, probably not the leader, probably won't do anything, you can walk away into the night, keeping an eye on everyone. Relocate and be gone. (we were taught this, after a 'hit', be gone; relocate. ) Corrupted courts, judges and lawyers be danged.
     
  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    As someone already said though. No ones going to come up to you with their guard outside of a movie set. If someone wants to attack they'll come at you swinging. If they want to rob you they'll pull a weapon or pin you to the wall. No ones ever going to come at you like that.

    Also that's not good advice at all. If you get into a scrap you call the police first before anyone else can. Firstly you were the one attacked so you have nothing to hide. Second if you don't call them and the other guy does. He gets his story in first and has his friends to back him up. But if you get in first and explain it was self defence you'll be alright most times
     
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  15. axelb

    axelb Yellow Belt

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    I haven't studied JKD, but what I understand from the concepts; you can intercept on timing by hitting as the opponent is bringing the guard up.
    Pre timing before they begin their attack.

    Sucker punch would require attacking during a distraction before they are expecting an attack.

    The detailed scenario suggests they already expect an altercation, in fact they are encouraging one.

    Effectively you are already at the stage that most striking competitions start at, so any successful attack used in competition also applies.
     
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  16. wab25

    wab25 Blue Belt

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    I don't get it... why is this the thing you learned? In your situation, you already broke many of the rules that any decent self defense type class should have given you. Honestly, you probably already lost this one anyway.

    You should have learned to be aware of your surroundings. This alley being so close to your house, and on your way to work, you should know if it is safe or not. Don't be on it if it is not safe. If it is safe usually, but this one time it was different... how did you end up close enough to hit the guy, in his guard before he can react? You should have noticed their presence a long time before you got there, and either crossed on the other side of the street well out of reach, or turned around to get something you forgot at the office... giving yourself a huge head start in the case that they wanted to come after you. Walking right up to a group of suspicious guys, in a dark alley and waiting till one gets into a fighting stance, close enough that you can end it with one shot, in front of his buddies... means you already lost and hopefully you will wake up.

    But, yes, I agree. You should do what you need to in order to leave, then leave. In this case, it was pay attention to your environment, and never get that close. Having failed that, your chances of being the hero go way, way down.
     
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  17. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    So I'm wandering about on the street with my friend and this guy walks out of a dark alley right in front of us, it's enough of a surprise to make us stop, turn and face him.

    Is he in cahoots with that group hanging around under the streetlight?

    Shields up! Red alert!


    ;)


    Seriously, if somebody is going to accost you they're unlikely to take a stance, it ruins the fun surprise of just smacking you. Nobody does a mugging with fists unless it's hit first, make demands later.

    Oh, and

    You don't get how it works, do you?

    The general never mans the front line, he stands and watches his troops do the work...
     
  18. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I’ve peed in dark alleys before. Staggering out of the bar, and when you’ve got to go, you’ve got to go.

    Never got jumped during that though.
     
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  19. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    well that's the principle of most ma, this seems,a very specific scenario, but reality time, its not a movie, your out numbered 2may be 6to one, his friend(s) will almost certainly join in, and they don't take turns like they do in the,films, one grabs, you, the other punches you

    can you actually take some one out with one punch, i mean you know this as you have,done it at least a few times,some people are very resilient , and will punch you back or grab you, once you don't move, you've lost , there's a guy behind you now, somewhere in the,dark,

    so, hit them and run, just run, or back up to keep space and your attackers in view, or maybe say excuse me mate and step round him,
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    The thing is, I don’t believe anybody actually walks down dark alleys, nor that people actually get attacked in that scenario. That is such a stereotype it’s silly actually.

    I feel the same way about the “bar fight” scenario. There might be more historic truth behind that one, but I suspect it too is largely unrealistic stereotype.
     
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