What are some differences between Karate and Taekwondo?

[dancingalone]

The biggest difference that I have seen is the emphasis on leg/lower body kicks in Karate and the emphasis of head kicks in TKD.

Another difference I have seen is that we have less stances than Karate. We have 3 basic stances (horse stance/side stance; Keema Jasae (kiba dachi), front stance; chonkul Jasae (zen kutsu dachi) , and cat stance; hoogul jasae (resembles something between kokustu dachi and a neko ashi dachi). We also have a cross legged stance and a crane stance and of course "ready stance." I believe karate has many more stances than this.

In my experience, various styles of karate do have more stances, but they are just variations off the same theme. Like having two different horse stances with the toes and knees slightly angled out differently. Or multiple cat stances with changes in the angle the two feet have in relation to each other.

Add the adaptations caused by kobudo study and you have a few more stances to catalog.

I'm into simplicity these days and probably care more about outcomes (power, balance, speed) than the exact angle and terminology you are 'supposed' to follow - realizing that stances vary to an extent between different bodies and people. It is the lesson the stances teach that are important, and not trying to duplicate with your own students the same exacting detail you got from your instructor when he was teaching YOU.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

This should be fun, looking at the picture above, starting with the first row.

There are moments in our forms that we are in the first position shown, but we have no formal name for it.

The second posture looks similar to our foot position on the fourth move in Pyung Ahn Chodan, but that's the only form I can think of off the top of my head that our feet are in that position, and again, we have no name for it.

The third posture resembles our Jhoon Bi (ready stance).

The fourth posture we do not have.

The fifth posture looks similar to what we call crane stance (han bal soo ki jasae)

The sixth posture is what we call crossed leg stance (kyo cha rip jasae)

We do not have a posture like the last stance in the first row.

The second row:

We do not have any of the five postures in our forms or art.

The third row:

The first posture is what we call a horse stance/side stance (keema Jasae)

The second posture looks similar to what we call a cat stance (hu gul jasae)

The fourth row:

The first posture looks similar to the horse stance, but the foot position isn't quite the same (we do not perform a stance in this manner).

The second posture looks like our front stance (chun gul jasae)

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Yeah, my KJN never taught us the "newer" soo bahk do formsets. I believe that he left Korea prior to Hwang Kee creating them. It is my understanding that Hwang Kee created those forms from interpreting the Muyedobotongji (which was more or less a transcribed copy of a chinese military training exercise text).

Having seen these forms online and at a few competitions, they do appear very different from the Shotokan/Shudokan formsets that the early Moo Duk Kwan taught.

 

[Earl Weiss]

In relation to picture above same or similar Chang Hon Stances:
Row 1: Close, Attention, Parallel, Outer Open, One Legged / Bending ready stance A or B, Rear Foot
Row 2 Inner Open, X Stance (Last stance shown no similarities. Inward pointing lead foot. )
Row 3. Sitting, L / Fixed
Row 4. (No Sitting stance with feet outward) Walking / Low

Stances not shown as a similar item. Diagonal, Vertical, Crouched. ,

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK, so following your picture...

Row 1:Moa Seogi (Close Stance), Chariot Seogi (Attention Stance) Joonbi Seogi (Ready Stance), Pal Ja Seogi (Open Ready Stance), Hakdari Seogi (Crane Stance - three versions exist, depending on the position of the raised foot to the front, side, or rear of the supporting leg), Koa Seogi (Cross Stance, though it's hard to be sure from this picture) and Beom Seogi (Cat Stance).

Row 2: An Jong Seogi (Closed Ready Stance), Oreun Seogi (Right Stance - although in our system, the feet would be at 90 degree angles), I do not know the last stance.

Row 3: Joo Choom Seogi (Horse Stance), Dwit Kubi or Fugul Kubi (Back Stance - although in our system the feet would be closer together, with about 2/3 of the weight on the rear foot).

Row 4: Ap Joo Seogi (Open Horse Stance), and Ap Kubi (Front Stance).

As I said, we teach three versions of the Crane Stance, depending on the position of the raised foot. And two versions of the Cross Stance, depending on if you're crossing in front or behind. We also teach Ap Seogi, (Walking Stance - a shorter, more upright Front Stance), Naranhi Seogi (Parallel Stance, seen in Keumgan - more upright Horse Stance),

Also, there are several other variations on the Ready Stance - Tongmilgi Joonbi Seogi (Pushing Hands Ready Stance - seen in Koryo), Kyopson Joonbi Seogi (Overlapping or crossed hands Ready Stance - seen in Pyongwon), and Bojumeok Seogi (Covered Fist Ready Stance - seen in Iyeo), etc.

There are also some transitional positions such as Bawimilgi (Boulder Pushing), Nalgaepyogi (Wingspreading Posture) that could be considered stances. I've been told they're not, by our KJN, but the difference between a stance and a posture, in this context, is something I'm not entirely clear on. I believe the difference is that they involve specific positions of the upper limbs, rather than just the body and feet. This is something I need to work on understanding better.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I merely chose the first decent pic found on the interwebs as an example, as I am no expert in Karate, I cannot comment on whether this is a comprehensive list of stances in Karate.

It is interesting to see the differences/similarities in stances between various styles of TKD though.

In our association, we use what you are terming a Closed stance as our Attention stance, so there is no place that we have our heels together and our toes pointing outward, as in row 1, stance 2.

Our ready stance is row 1, stance 3, and we have no "open ready stance."

Like, Dirty Dog, we have a couple of different types of crane stance/single leg stance, depending on the nature of the particular technique being used.

We also have a kneeling crossed leg stance as well as a standing crossed leg stance.

We do not have the last stance in row 1 (the cat stance).

As I stated previously, we do not have any stances in row 2.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

The third row: the first is a horse stance, and the next is close to what we term a cat stance (very similar to what Dirty Dog was describing).

The fourth row: We do not have an open horse stance. and the last is our front/forward stance.

We have a low cat stance (Kong Sang Koon) and a dropped stance front stance (also Kong Sang Koon).

It appears that ITF and Kukki TKD utilize more stances than what my association uses.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It appears that ITF and Kukki TKD utilize more stances than what my association uses.

FWIW a few of the stances I listed appear in the text but do not appear in the patterns i.e. Crouched, inner and outer open.

 

[NinjaChristian]

I'm having trouble with this one because I've tried looking on YouTube but seem to get different kicks, one of which is kicking a person behind you with what looks like a very high front kick that hits the person behind with the ball of the foot, does that sound right? There is another which looks like Wado's inverse crescent kick, and also a front kick. It's intriguing.

All the kicks in Wado can be used as a jumping kick ( by younger people lol my days of jumping kicks have gone, I now rely on a thumping good low kick to the thigh, I suspect it will be to the calf soon then the ankle or I'll be reduced to sparring toddlers ) I could do a good jumping side kick but never a flying side kick, I used to say it was too flashy to actually use but was always secretly jealous of those who could do it, that and the double front kick.

Here is a video that shows it

 

[NinjaChristian]

As for the OP's interest in Taekwon-Do history, I cannot say one way or the other...

In this post I am not concerned with the history of any of the arts or styles, simply the different styles approach to fighting and the techniques contained within the styles.

If someone could post some/all of the different styles of karate, and perhaps some information on those styles( such as what distinguishes them from other styles/arts) that would be great .

I don't care for comparisons of one art to another, as I have come to the conclusion that no martial art is better than another that is practiced for the same purpose. I am eager to learn .

 

[MAfreak]

ta-da! google is your friend.
Comparison of karate styles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
before someone says it: the sources of wikipedia articles might in worst case not be trustful but same to forums-posts and most wikipedia articles are researched very well.

 

[Dirty Dog]

FWIW a few of the stances I listed appear in the text but do not appear in the patterns i.e. Crouched, inner and outer open.

I suspect that is true of most, if not all, TKD variations. It's certainly true for us.

 

[Prototype]

There is some disagreement on what Funakoshi wanted for stance length and depth.

There is no disagreement that I know of. Shotokan stance was originally high, there is footage of Gishin Funakoshi to support this. This was also during the time General Choi studied Shotokan. It was Funakoshis son who lowered it. This notion that Choi Hong Hi raised the TKD stance from Karate is false, not only because of Funakoshi but also becuse of the Okinawa styles.

One major difference between Shotokan and TKD is the roundhouse kick in patterns. Shotokan does not have a roundhouse kick in any of the patterns. Mawashi geri did not exist back when the patterns were created. TKD however does have it's version of the roundhouse kick in it's patterns.

 

[Earl Weiss]

There is no disagreement that I know of. Shotokan stance was originally high, there is footage of Gishin Funakoshi to support this. This was also during the time General Choi studied Shotokan. It was Funakoshis son who lowered it. This notion that Choi Hong Hi raised the TKD stance from Karate is false, not only because of Funakoshi but also becuse of the Okinawa styles.

............

It is fine that you see history in some absolute terms because of some video footage.

In any event my post was qualified in it's wording " There is some disagreement on what Funakoshi wanted for stance length and depth, but many Karate practitioners favor longer, deeper and less mobile stances ........"

So, the notion is not "False" General Choi took a Page from Funakoshi's "Book" in that he chose from various parameters used in a variety of previous arts and chose which parameters to include in his system. To that extent General Choi's system differs from . .what "Many karate practitioners favor" and he was the one who made the choice based upon various factors including various Okinawan styles such as Shorin and Shorei as referenced in his 1965 Book.

 

[Dirty Dog]

One major difference between Shotokan and TKD is the roundhouse kick in patterns. Shotokan does not have a roundhouse kick in any of the patterns. Mawashi geri did not exist back when the patterns were created. TKD however does have it's version of the roundhouse kick in it's patterns.

Broad brush generalizations have such a nasty habit of being wrong...
There are an awful lot of different TKD forms sets. Any school which teaches the Palgwae forms, for example, will not be teaching forms that include the roundhouse kick. Ooops.

And the claim that the roundhouse kick "did not exist", simply because it wasn't included in forms is patently ridiculous.

 

[Prototype]

Broad brush generalizations have such a nasty habit of being wrong...
There are an awful lot of different TKD forms sets. Any school which teaches the Palgwae forms, for example, will not be teaching forms that include the roundhouse kick. Ooops.

And the claim that the roundhouse kick "did not exist", simply because it wasn't included in forms is patently ridiculous.

So? Palgwe is not the complete forms of a given TKD style, its' only coloured belts. Shotokan has no roundhouse kick at any belt level. Mawashi geri did not exist. The reason for this is that a roundhouse kick of any sort was deemed radical/risky by the masters of the those times in Shotokan.

 

[Prototype]

It is fine that you see history in some absolute terms because of some video footage.

In any event my post was qualified in it's wording " There is some disagreement on what Funakoshi wanted for stance length and depth, but many Karate practitioners favor longer, deeper and less mobile stances ........"

So, the notion is not "False" General Choi took a Page from Funakoshi's "Book" in that he chose from various parameters used in a variety of previous arts and chose which parameters to include in his system. To that extent General Choi's system differs from . .what "Many karate practitioners favor" and he was the one who made the choice based upon various factors including various Okinawan styles such as Shorin and Shorei as referenced in his 1965 Book.

It is a fact that he original stances in Shotokan were high (like the Okinawa styles) and that Funakoshis son later lowered them. That's a true/absolute statement. You claimed that there is disagreement, when there isn't. Fact is that General Choi lowered the stances, because Okinawa style stances are ridiculously high.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So? Palgwe is not the complete forms of a given TKD style, its' only coloured belts.

Not true. I know of at least one system in my area that teaches the Palgwae forms after black belt is reached. In our Moo Duk Kwan system, we use the Palgwae forms for geup ranks and the KKW Yudanja forms for Dan ranks. None of those include roundhouses. I do teach the Taegeuk forms (which do include roundhouse kicks) as an option for those students who want KKW Dan rank, but you can rest assured that all of our students learn the roundhouse kick, regardless of which certification they choose.

Shotokan has no roundhouse kick at any belt level.

Sure it does. Just not in the kata. Anyone with any actual training in Shotokan will confirm that the style does, in fact, include the roundhouse kick.

Mawashi geri did not exist. The reason for this is that a roundhouse kick of any sort was deemed radical/risky by the masters of the those times in Shotokan.

Well, if it didn't exist, how could it be "deemed radical/risky?" Ooops....
The roundhouse kick is one of the most fundamental kicks in any striking art.

 

[Prototype]

Not true. I know of at least one system in my area that teaches the Palgwae forms after black belt is reached. In our Moo Duk Kwan system, we use the Palgwae forms for geup ranks and the KKW Yudanja forms for Dan ranks. None of those include roundhouses. I do teach the Taegeuk forms (which do include roundhouse kicks) as an option for those students who want KKW Dan rank, but you can rest assured that all of our students learn the roundhouse kick, regardless of which certification they choose.



Sure it does. Just not in the kata. Anyone with any actual training in Shotokan will confirm that the style does, in fact, include the roundhouse kick.

Well, if it didn't exist, how could it be "deemed radical/risky?" Ooops....
The roundhouse kick is one of the most fundamental kicks in any striking art.

I asserted (correctly) that a roundhouse kick of any sort was deemed radical/risky. That is not in conflict with the statement that mawashi geri did not exist in Shotokan There was no roundhouse kick concept to Shotokan taught at all. Now there is. It is however still absent from their kata. One can therefore in principle teach traditional Shotokan, pre world war 2, without the inclusion of the roundhouse kick. One can not however teach Chang-Hon TKD without the roundhouse kick.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I asserted (correctly)

Well, you did make the assertion. Doesn't seem to be correct, though.

that a roundhouse kick of any sort was deemed radical/risky.

Which, once again, contradicts your claim that it didn't exist. If it didn't exist, it would be deemed non-existent.