wetzel death

Discussion in 'Indochinese Martial Arts - General' started by OULobo, Jul 24, 2003.

  1. Wogeibe

    Wogeibe White Belt

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    My pastor was good friends with Roy Wetzel. Roy respected my pastor and if I remember right, Roy used to help my pastor with his newspaper business and they would drive around together. Roy was not a born again Christian but he told my pastor that if he ever went to a church, that he would go to his church.(I think thats how the story went anyways) When my pastor met Roy's father for the first time, he told Roy to be careful around his father because he sensed he was trouble. Roy's father would boast about killing men in Indonesian martial arts tournaments and would laugh as he related how the blood squirted out. The night of the incident, my pastor saw the report on the news about the fight and so my pastor rushed down to the jail to see Roy and told the police that he was Roy's pastor and he came to see him. Although Roy didn't go to the church, my pastor was the closest thing Roy had to a pastor. They let my pastor in to see Roy and Roy was pretty shaken up. Roy had scratches on the inside of his throat from his father apparently trying to rip his tongue out. Roy's father swung the sword so hard at him that it bent the sword in half. Roy said he hit his father in the head with a pair of nunchucks and it knocked the top half of his head off, but his father was still crawling after him and growling like an animal. My pastor ministered to Roy and led him in a prayer to accept Christ. I think my pastor also testified as a character witness for Roy. I was just surfing the net and I came across this discussion so I figured I would add my small amount of knowledge to the matter. God bless.
     
  2. Shagen

    Shagen White Belt

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    Mas Nick G,
    My 7 year old trains here in Portland at One With Heart. Under Mas Mike. He is great. She just recieved her first stripe on her white belt. I am just looking around on the internet to find out as much as I can about the poekoelan so I can know more about what she is doing and where it comes from. They offered a club at her school to train for so many weeks for free and she liked it so we signed her up and now that I am on a contract I just want to know more about what she is doing. She is good at it and loves it.
     
  3. katos

    katos White Belt

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    With all due respect to Mr Rex Downie there are often 2-4sides to every story. If Mr. Downie wasin fact the defense attorney is the first question. (He may have been) but I will say that 99% ofeverything I hear about the Wetzel’s is BS. 110% of what I hear/read about Peokeolan is BS.I read web pages, meet instructors, etc, etc, I will tell you as a fact thatmost who now teach Peokoelan know absolutely nothing about the art. I laughed my a** off when a recent peokeolan “master”decided to add takes downs and ground fighting after watching MMA. This “master” could not have taken one lesson;he also could not do one sit-up. I willtell you that I believe 80% of the comments from Mr. Downie are NOT correct(either thru telling part of the story or thru exaggeration, or just plainwrong).
    The comments that Roy was a Christian Saint and THEE martialart’s master are a laugh and that Willy was a voodoo practicing martial artsfake and bully are ridiculous. Peoplewho actually attended the original school know very well the skill differencebetween Roy and Willy. Roy was good, buthe was not Willy or even in the top half dozen in the school. Roy had lots of trophies, sure, so did frankdux(that he bought ¼ mile away), Check outnewspapers and martial arts magazines for competitions of the era and let meknow how many times you find “Roy Wetzel” attending a competition, even local(but not in house). If you find onereference let the community know, it would be a first.
    Roy was found innocent but I would bet my bottom dollar thatwould not happen today. Moderninvestigation would likely reveal that Willy was filling out his taxes, Roy hithis father in the head with a pair of nunchucks rendering him almost dead andsure to be dead, (when he hit his father a pen mark was drawn across the taxforms). Then he finished him by chokinghim. In 70’s the mystique kung-Fu wasnew. People may have believed that Willy was a threat with his head halfknocked off; in a modern court the judge would laugh. Add in blood splatter evidence and etc. and Ithink this may have been viewed very differently……… Funny the posts by Mr Rex do not mention thehead injury?????
    In a courtroom today, witnesses would be called to look atthe defense wounds (tiny scratches) as clearly fake and Roy’s story that hisfather was trying to use the “ancient art of cutting tiny capillaries to killhim” as not part of any fighting art or even any part of reality (trust me, it’snot). Yeah the house was a bloody mess,who blood?
    As far as the Vatican reviewing Roy’s case forsainthood? Ask around about Roy’s“hobbies” and ask yourself why a man that age dies of a head attack.
    As far as Willy’s old school students; the Golden boys, etc.,all fine Gentleman! I spared many ofthem in the day, when I was a kid they are the real deal.
    I want to be Clear, Roy was an amazing martial artist and inthe shape of a modern MMA fighter in the day. I don’t want to insult his students, but he was not Willie. I would only rank him in the top ten in thatcrew, but again, an almost supernatural crew.
     
  4. Karen Botinovch Cody

    Karen Botinovch Cody White Belt

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    I know it has been some time since the inquiring blog on Wiily & Roy Wetzel. But I thought you all might be interested in a book that was just published by the oldest some Wim Wetzel....Empty Open Hands, A Survivor's Story....The Life & Legacy of Martial Arts Master Willy Johannes Cristoffel Wetzel.

    Actually Roy was not the oldest, he was the second son. Wim was about 2 years older than Roy although, if I recall correctly, they both where in the same grade when they attended Beaver Hi, due to the transition from Holland etc. I only knew Wim, Roy and Janie....not Jimmy.

    Back to the book. It starts with Willy's life as a child, goes through military and 4 years as a POW....tells of Willy's and the family's life from beginning to end. Wim did send me a message and say it was a tough read....I told him no problem I'd be fine. He was correct...it is. I made it thru the first few pages and had to put it down with tears in my eyes. I'm thru to about 1/2 and put it down again. It actually made my heart hurt...maybe because it's hard to know that friends had to experience all that. I knew in hi-school Roy and his dad had a strained relationship but reading this gave me a better understanding of their father and why he was who he was. I highly recommend it.
     
  5. Mas Tom

    Mas Tom White Belt

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    Hello All! It's been about 4yrs since anyone has posted to this forum. So I figured I'd like to add my two sense during these crazy pandemic Covid-19 times. Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Mas Tom. You can call me a "Guru" if you want. I have over 23yrs+ of studying Penjak Silat Poekoelan Tjimindie. Ten of these 23yrs I trained directly under Mas Roy Wetzel in Rochester, Pa. I started training as a young boy at the age of 7-8yrs old. That was right around 1986-1987. I trained under Mas Roy Wetzel until the time of his death in 1995-1996. For the idiot who said that Mas Roy "never won trophies" and "had his trophies made" is a very disrespectful and ill-informed individual. Back in the 70s Mas Roy Wetzel would go to all of these tourments sponsored by Master Curtis Smith, Master Bill Viola, Frank Caliguri & Master John Barton. Mas Roy's style my style "Poekoelan" which technically I'm a "Fourth River" since I learned right from Mas Roy Wetzel is a very different type of "martial arts". Back in the 70s the tournament scene never seen anything like Roy Wetzel or a "crawl" or " Poekoelan" in general. Tournament fighting is completely different all together. Take it from me I was 4th place PA State Champion back in the 90s and I won quite a few trophies & tournaments. Whenever you "tournament fight" you're not suppose to actually hit people. You're suppose to pull your blow a few inches from their body. Also the striking or "point area" is from the head down to the waist and nothing lower. So here came this crazy long haired cut mofo named Roy Wetzel who had a very bad persona surrounding him due to killing his father Willy Wetzel. Not only did Mas Roy have this spooky almost scary vibe he gave off because if you didn't know him and just read the headlines one may think this dude is a murder he killed his father! Not true at all. So getting back to Roy Wetzel competing during the 70s. Mas Roy's strikes were so fast (I personally trained with him & seen him strike heavy bags. One time he blew the sand out of the bag he hit it so hard) well needless to say his strikes weren't being recognized as "points" back in the 70s. So this kind of pissed him off. What happened next led to the Wetzel school of self defense being banned from tournaments for over 25yrs! Because Mas Roy said "They didn't want to recognize my points. So I made sure they would recognize my points. And I started knocking people out." Mas Roy Wetzel DOMINATED the mid to late 70s tournament scene until a group of "Masters" I'm not going to mention any names here got together & banned Mas Roy Wetzel & the Wetzel Self Defense school from future tournaments. Now I'm sure this had more politics to do with the banning including the fact that this man killed his father! Of course these "Masters" didn't want some crazed murder running around their tournaments knocking all of the other so called "Masters" and black belts out cold. It wasn't until around 1992-1993 that we were finally invited back to a tournament which at that time was a CS Kim tournament and it was a huge one. I competed at that time I was a brown belt and I'd been studying for around 6-7yrs. I'll never forget one of the CS Kim "Masters" asking me how long I studied for. I replied "About 7yrs" they started laughing at me saying "You should be a Black Belt Master" like they didn't even believe me or something? Anyways I placed first in fighting and from that point I was hooked. I started going to as many tournaments as Mas Roy would allow me to go to. I ended up placing 1st in numerous fighting tournaments including the Laurel State Karate Championship (I had a broken collar bone at the time too) and Curtis Smith's Ultimate Fighter, etc. Mas Roy actually organized his own tournament shortly before his untimely death: The Beaver County Martial Arts Classic which I placed 1st in fighting, forms & breaking. I use to be able to do a speed break (it's now become a lost art). I could throw a board up in the air and break it in mid air. Or someone would hold the board and drop it from a ladder or chair and I would always strike fast enough to break it. My hand speed was incredible. I learned all of my techniques directly from Mas Roy Wetzel. I would sit in his office and have long talks with him as a kid and teenager. He watched me grow and develop into an extremely serious fighter. The trophies Mas Roy had on display at his school were most DEFINITELY 1000% LEGIT!! Most of them had cobwebs on them and they were faded away from the 70s but each and everyone of them had their own story and they were fought hard to be won by a martial arts hall of famer. Yes Mas Roy Wetzel was inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Something not even his father Willy Wetzel was able to accomplish in his lifetime. I can tell anyone who says Poekoelan is "BS" or this or that. I know from where I came from this style was no BS! I seen people get their noses broken during open hand combat aka "sparring" (we didn't use equipment to spar) I personally had my adams apple kicked so hard one time that I couldn't breathe. I've given people bloody lips & ended up with a few myself along with bruises all over my body. We fought hard at Mas Roy's to say the least. I remember doing monkey rolls back & forth across the wood floor. I was probably around 13-14 at the time. I started teaching at a green belt. I was running warm-ups and full classes at a third degree. After Mas Roy's passing I broke away from the school and helped Mas Dean Peteralla open up a school in West Aliquippa, Pa. We trained for a few years there then moved to the boxing club in Ambridge, Pa where I trained with golden glove boxers for about another 3-4yrs. From there we moved to Hopewell twp Pa and I kept training under Mas Dean until I was around 27yrs old. After I left Mas Dean I moved out to CA and took a few years of MMA. I am now 40yrs old and I'm going to be opening up my own Poekoelan school in the Pittsburgh, Pa area after this Covid-19 crap subsides. I will be focusing my school on the old style & original style that Mas Roy Wetzel taught me. I will also be incorporating some MMA, boxing, etc techniques that were taught to me by golden glove fighters and west coast competitors. Now I'm sure that there are a ton of "phony martial artists" out there. But my record speaks for itself and so does my dozens of 1st, 2nd & 3rd place awards. But to say that Roy Wetzel wasn't the BEST martial artist of his time would be an under statement. Mas Roy was a genuine person and one hell of a nice guy. I feel very lucky and blessed to have had the opportunity to train with such a fantastic person and a complete BadAss! I know that anyone who stuck around for 5yrs or more at Mas Roy's left Mas Roy's one hell of a fighter. Again Roy Wetzel's Self Defense wasn't teaching their students how to win tournaments. We were taught how survive and win real fights!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  6. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

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    just read the whole thread. respect to the all passionate ma.
    here the trend in the last twenty years they called it maenpo,
    maen peupeuhan in sundanese which in indonesian it directly translated as main poekoelan == striking game.

    honest question for me, is it tjimindie or tjimande? since both places are really exist here.

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  7. Mas Tom

    Mas Tom White Belt

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    Hello! The style I was taught by Mas Roy Wetzel is Penjak Silat Poekoelan Tjimindie with an "ie" I was taught that "Tjimindie" means beautiful flowing waters & a city by the sea. I've done some recent research & from my understanding the difference in spelling is due to a Dutch pronunciation. I hope this helps! Keep an eye out for my new Poekoelan school in the upcoming months. If you're a local Pittsburgh area resident stop by & say "hi" sometime!
     
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  8. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

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    thanks for the background information.
    the explanation makes sense, tjimindie or modern writing as cimindi is based on two words, ci and mindi.
    ci means water while mindi is a plant that's widly grown near beach/coast line.
    while cimindi is also the name of distric under Cimahi (was under Bandung) , west java. where in the old days was or maybe still famous as a place where many thugs/pendekar reside since they have big street market there.

    I sincerely hope success to your school.

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