Weights or Weightless.

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by Ryokeen, Jun 14, 2007.

  1. Ryokeen

    Ryokeen White Belt

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    I'm currently debating on whether or not I should use a weight routine or simply let my MA practice, bag work, and running be my conditioning. I'm not exactly new to the world of conditioning and MA so I have SOME knowledge under my belt.... however, I'm still split. First off let me describe what I am looking for to you, so you can better understand where I am coming from.

    I am NOT looking to be HUGE... Or large in anyway (i.e. I could care less about benching 300 lbs or having a large body.) I am; however, looking to be in great physical shape, enough to be confident in my ability to preform my techniques with power and effectiveness. Also... as some of you might know... I am into Martial Arts "tricking." Some of you might have seen it on T.v. under the name of Extreme Martial Arts. Lee nationals.... Loop Kicks... Ect.

    In tricking you have to be in top physical condition and you have to have great strength.

    As I was lifting yesterday I realized something...I was gitting bigger in general. I was Gaining weight. Which is fine, for now seeing as how I was 5'8'' and 120 lbs before hand.... but I don't want to continue to gain as 143 seems to be a solid weight for my height... yet I still want to get stronger.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but lifting heavy tears muscles greatly, and when they repair they form bigger than before... and when you lift light with many reps muscles tear small and therefor reform... still stonger but smaller in size. Is that correct?

    If so, should I start working on using light weight, many reps and rely mostly on my daily MA training and running though "full body" workouts are said to be less productive then sectionalized workouts?

    Share your thoughts with me please?

    Thanks,
    Aaron
     
  2. orjan

    orjan White Belt

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    "Correct me if I am wrong, but lifting heavy tears muscles greatly, and when they repair they form bigger than before... and when you lift light with many reps muscles tear small and therefor reform... still stonger but smaller in size. Is that correct?"

    That is not correct. It has been widely believed but is out date. There is a mountain of recent research which points to almost the opposite. As a general guideline:

    Fiber type growth type rep range
    type 1 myofibrilllar 15 - 50 (aerobic energy system = slow +
    type 1 sarcoplasmic 6 - 10 no explosiveness

    type IIA myofibrillar 8 - 15 oxygen fueled fast twitch =
    type IIA sarcoplasmic 16 - 25 blend of slow and fast

    type IIB myofibrilllar 1 - 5 true fast twitch = max strength
    type IIB sarcoplasmic 6 - 10 and explosiveness

    You want myofibrillar growth (density of contractile units within the muscles).
    Sarcoplasmic growth is the hypertrophy of the cell, includes extra water, mitochondria, etc. Stimulating myofibrillar hypertrophy with adequate rest (prevent lactic acid release while lifting) leads to greater strength without the size gains from myofibrillar hypertrophy (which provides less strength with more size).

    Chart info taken from Underground Secrets to Faster Running by Barry Ross. His website www.bearpowered.com will lead you to much of the science behind this outline. Don't be fooled by the reference to running. The same training method works for all sports/activities. I've added over 100 pounds to my deadlift while losing 15 pounds of bodyweight.
     
  3. Ryokeen

    Ryokeen White Belt

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    That's a lot of science.
    So in otherwards, my current routine which has me do medium and heavy weight stuff daily( Minus Sunday my day of total rest, 30 min walk double water intake and protein if neccisary for healing), along side with running and MA conditioning is just fine?
    I followed pretty well, and thanks for that tidbit of information. That made a lot more sense then I atfirst thought ;)!
     
  4. orjan

    orjan White Belt

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    I would stick to largely hvy wts/ lo reps (2 - 5) with long rest periods between sets. The long rest periods allows the ATP to replenish (replenishes about 95% in 5 minutes). ATP is the fuel for type IIB muscles.

    This formula will force the recruitment of IIB fibers which will lead to the myofibrillar hypertrophy (increased density with min size increase). The long rest keeps you away from lactic acid, which makes for quicker recovery and reduces the damage to the muscle fibers.

    This type of strength workout will also have a minimal impact on your other training (no lactic acid - no residual exhaustion problems with you MA).
     
  5. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    Almost all pro fighters are very motivated not to gain weight, as they have to stay in there weight class. Yet all of them lift weights ;)

    Just watch what you do and how you do it. Do some research and some experimentation.
     
  6. Ryokeen

    Ryokeen White Belt

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    Should I stick with once a day workouts still?
     
  7. Shirt Ripper

    Shirt Ripper Black Belt

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    Training with weights, if done correctly, will help you increase your MA abilities. Again, if done correctly, should increase flexibility.

    As eluded to above, don't be so quick to think that lifting weights means "getting huge." If it were that easy, would there be bodybuilding and powerlifting as sports? Nope.

    Speaking of powerlifting, there is weight classes there just as wrestling or boxing or whatever. They have to increase strength while remaining in their weight class.

    You see? There are also many other factors invoved (namely nutrition!).
     
  8. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    Let me get rid of some myths for you. If you are scared of getting big you will need some extra enhancement(if you understand what I am saying). If you find out how to get big by just lifting, I want to know what you did because I have some bodybuilders that want to know.

    I have a huge problem with people believeing that if they lift heavy then they will get "bulky" or "big" and this is not so.

    Now, on to the original question/concern. Higher reps and lighter weights only utilize type 1 whereas, heavy weights and mid-range weights utilize slow and fast twitch fibers. Idealy, you need to decide if you want musclular endurance or muscular strength. Next you will need to decide how you will split up your workout. Then how many exercises per body part you are going to do. Next decide how many sets. And last you decide the number of reps based off of your answer to question #1. 12-20 for endurance, 8-12 for muscular growth and a mix of endurance/strength, 2-6 for strength.

    One of the most overlooked and important pieces of any workout is your rest period. 48 hours between workouts for a body part.

    These are some basic principles to think about when you set up your workout.
     
  9. Steel Tiger

    Steel Tiger Senior Master

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    The guys before me have given very good advice with regard to weights, resting, and other things so I'll go in a somewhat different direction.

    You are going to get bigger. You're 17 now and will not come into your full adult growth until somewhere around 21. Therefore you are very likely to change shape somewhat.

    You like MA tricks and such things. These require suppleness. So you must make sure that any weight training you do does not detract from your flexibilty and suppleness. there are some good traditional exercise sets that help develop strength while maintaining suppleness. Have a look at something like the Ba Duan Jin as a supplement to your program.
     
  10. KempoGuy06

    KempoGuy06 Grandmaster

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    You will more than likely gain weight my lifting weights for the simple fact the muscle weighs more than fat.

    Lifting heavy weights will increase size but you will increase strength and power, more that endurance and stamina. Lower weights with more reps will help to improve explosiveness, stamina endurance. Strength and power will still improve but in a different way. My advise is take what you want to do and concentrate on that but also rotate in a series of the type of training. Muscle confussion is very effective.

    B
     
  11. Ryokeen

    Ryokeen White Belt

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    Thanks for all the great advice to Consider!
    I'm shaping up a new workout plan thanks to your advice and my own informations I've gathered in the past couple days. It seems like everything makes more sense now and I should be able to pull together a good routine to put my body on!

    Thanks!
    :)
     
  12. KempoGuy06

    KempoGuy06 Grandmaster

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    remember a proper diet is also a key component. work out all you want but if you not fueling your body properly then its all for nothing

    B
     
  13. Ryokeen

    Ryokeen White Belt

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    Oh, I know. I've done LOADS of research on proper nutrition and such. I was just seeing some weightless routines getting some nice results, but then I started to realize that those nice results took a long, long time and many drilled hours and probably more than a handful of injuries and fatigue.

    Like all things it all just takes time, hardwork, and a bit of patience.
    I'm liking my alternating days for lifting and running. And so far things seem to be going much better.
    Though I might need to do a bit of tweaking, I have monday as a running day (after a full day of rest and walking sunday) and I also have Kenpo the same day. Might need to change the schedule up a bit to spare my legs in the evening. We'll see!

    Thanks again!123
     

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