Weight lifting useless?

Discussion in 'Health Tips for the Martial Artist' started by JamesYazell, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. JamesYazell

    JamesYazell Yellow Belt

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    A friend of mine has lost a lot of weight after following the calestinic workout laid out in the book "Combat Conditioning" The authors website can be found here: http://www.mattfurey.com/

    I've actually begun following the workout myself and he brings up some interesting points about weightlifting. I particularly like his reference of animals never lifting weights but only using there own body weight. I just thought alot of his ideas about weight lifting were interesting and worthy of discussion.
     
  2. RoninPimp

    RoninPimp Brown Belt

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    Bodtweight calestinics are great for conditioning. So is weight training. Matt Furey is wrong and just trying to sell his product.
     
  3. Marginal

    Marginal Senior Master

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    I've never seen an ape doing push ups.
     
  4. Shirt Ripper

    Shirt Ripper Black Belt

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    Matt fuery is trying to sell a product. A good product, yes. Good point about the apes.

    If you have the tools, why not utilize them? I am a proponent of bodyweight based training (as well as many other methods) but to limit oneself to one "set" of ideas is silly ( in my opinion...did I just use a passive tone of voice...oh man!).
     
  5. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    and we dont swing through the trees

    what a stupid comment



    .
     
  6. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    Matt has a lot of good ideas, nothing new to it and it should , along with weights and other forms of exercise, form part of a sensible training programme (ross boxing, cross fit, dragondoor, kettlebell).

    Matt is trying to sell a programme,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and not a cheap one at that!!!!
     
  7. Jonathan Randall

    Jonathan Randall Senior Master

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    No need to be disrespectful.

    I believe he meant that animals don't intentionally exercise for strength and fitness in the same way that humans do and that since we have both bodyweight exercises AND weights to work with, why limit ourselves to one?
     
  8. Hand Sword

    Hand Sword Grandmaster

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    Weight training, among other things, makes us stronger and faster. How can this be considered usueless? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a weightlifter, but, did so, during sports training in school. My over all performance did improve due to the weights. I think any kind of exercise will be useful.
     
  9. JamesYazell

    JamesYazell Yellow Belt

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    When he trained under a japanese wrestler he says the man(can't think of his name) explained that weight lifting creates cosmetic muscles. They look good but do not have the functunality that muscles developed from calestinics would.
     
  10. rutherford

    rutherford Master Black Belt

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    Animals also don't lead the sedentary lifestyle that we do, or eat the poorly constructed foods we typically do. When your body is trained to burn fat instead of sugar and you lead an active lifestyle, then every motion leads to greater physical fitness. You even burn fat as you sleep.

    You can see the difference in pet dogs. If you feed your dog well and allow it excercise, it will have the energy level of a wild animal. It will move with grace, and no human could ever hope to run so fast. However, if you have a sedentary dog that is overfed and/or poorly fed, the animal will develop joint problems, overall poor physical health, and typically look terrible. I feel so bad for those dogs, because unlike all of us they have no real choices.

    Those of us with desk jobs absolutely need to have an excercise practice, be it martial arts or weight training or yoga or Circular Strength Training. There is definitely schools of thought that say you should cross train lots of different excercise programs. http://www.crossfit.com/ is a great source for this type of program.

    Other schools of thought would have you follow a specific program to a mastery level before you try to branch out and confuse your body by working towards often opposed physical goals.

    Each has their benefits, and you needto research and choose the path that's right for you. Much like choosing a martial style, and much like getting good at anything in life.

    Whatever you do, it's important to enjoy your excercise practice.
     
  11. rutherford

    rutherford Master Black Belt

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    This charge is usually leveled against body building training. Who would ever say that a Powerlifter has only cosmetic muscles? Whatever you say about the health effects, since they're setting world records they are doing something to become STRONG - at least in their specific sport. And very few of them are good looking.

    And who would say that Kettlebells or Clubbells leads to purely cosmetic strength?

    Weight training means a lot of different things.
     
  12. mrhnau

    mrhnau Senior Master

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    well, I've lifted weights, and mine never looked too good :rofl:

    calesthetics is great for you, but lifting weights tends to focus on a narrower range of muscles. Its not all about looking good. Do you -need- weight lifting? no, but it can help... I don't think you need to go overboard with it, but its good for you... personally, I enjoy jumping on the bench a heck of alot more than I do doing pushups. I think of mix of both is helpful...

    was about to comment on lifestyle, but I see rutherford already did that :)
     
  13. rutherford

    rutherford Master Black Belt

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  14. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    Sorry , no intention of being disrespectful, just my opinion
     
  15. samurai69

    samurai69 Blue Belt

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    There have been many misconceptions about weight training, ie they make you slower, training shortens the muscles etc

    has anyone seen marius pudzanowski performing splits etc and training in karate, he is just as flexible and fast as many other martial arts practicioners

    I train with weights 3 times per week, for functional strength, i am 42 years old can comfortablly do box splits,i can also bench press more than my bodyweight comfortably for reps, my punching speed and power are better than they were before i lifted weights (this way in particular) i am far happier training with a mixture or balance of training methods that allow me to perform than to avoid weightlifting


    .
     
  16. stickarts

    stickarts Senior Master

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    Weight training has helped improve my striking power, grappling strength, and improved my confidence.
    It has also helped me in a number of sports that I used to compete in.
    Weight training has helped me tremendously.
    I think one key is to develop an intelligent routine that meets your goals for your given sport / goal. For example, developing too much bulk if you are trying to develop top speed for point fighting wouldn't work well.
    I had an ideal fight weight and i knew if I overtrained it would slow me down.
     
  17. Shirt Ripper

    Shirt Ripper Black Belt

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    Good post Rutherford and Samurai69.

    It all comes down to how one defines "functionality." For a bodybuilder well developed (size wise), well defined and symmetrical musculature is about as functional as it gets. For a powerlifter, the ability to exert the most absolute (competitive, depending) strength in the squat, bench press and deadlift will prove the most functional. For a weightlifter (commonly called Olympic Lifting) maximizing power in the clean and jerk and the snatch is the peak of functionality.

    Will this be the same for a sprinter, jav thrower, arnisador, MMA practicioner, rifleman (or woman...), distance runner, swimmer, etc, etc?

    Absolutely not! That's why we have people like me (and mostly the Russians of the 70's and 80's, honestly) who spend their days studying "lifting" in order to devise more practical and functional means of supplementing training in different pursuits in the weightroom.

    To not think further of "weightlifting" than what we see in Flex and Shape magazine would be foolish and short-sighted.
     
  18. jfarnsworth

    jfarnsworth Grandmaster

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    Useless? :idunno:

    I believe you will get out of it what you put in it. I've had much success in my program especially the last 2 years. I'm quite happy with what I've done but am nowhere near what I want out of my program. It's still work in progress:) . I'm a 5 day a week lifter, hitting each body part once except chest. That's twice a week but due to the complex region of the chest I also have 2 seperate work out sessions. As shirt ripper will tell you (like the above post) my sessions wouldn't be for everyone. Nor somone elses mine.
    Good luck in your training.
     
  19. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    I think both sides have good points. I dont think weightlifting is USELESS by any means, but its also not NECCESSARY by any means either.

    By that I mean you can still get a perfectly acceptable workout if you have no access to weights, by doing pushups, dips, pull ups, squat thrusts... whatever it is you do... as long as you do SOMTHING. After all, in basic training, we never used Weights durring P.T. It was all pushups, Jumping jacks, squat thrusts, Turn and Bounce, dying cockroach... and running, running, running, and did I mention running? The closest thing to "weights" we did was run with our packs and rifles... and I would say I was in the best shape of my life... even better than when I was going to the gym 4 days a week to lift weights.

    Does that make it WRONG to lift weights? Hell no, just different.
     
  20. Shirt Ripper

    Shirt Ripper Black Belt

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    Probably the best point yet.

    I've been curious, having never had the pleasure of experiencing basic training, why would you guess that traditional resistance training is generally excluded from the regiment?

    Keeping with the "real" training approach? Convenience (or lack thereof)? Perhaps the constant "hustle mode" mentality?

    Just curious.123
     

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