Weapon/Tool Development/Anthropology... Formerly Blocking useless?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by lklawson, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I understand that. Just saying what they told me and how they referred to themselves.. I don't practice it so , the people who do can call themselves whatever they want.
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    i think pagan was an insulting term you called others, not what you call yourself,
     
  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I thought the omen (original one) used daggers? Now I have to look it up. Yep. They were daggers. I didn't see the newer Omen..
    [​IMG]
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    oh. I know that a lot of them have new age shops or groups. They have grown quite a bit since the availability of the Internet.
     
  5. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    With all due respect, you don't seem to know this subject matter very well. Me, I've been a student of all things occult and religious for several decades.

    Firstly ''pagan" is a first century term to describe all non Christian religions. This was an accusatory/pejorative word. That term was very recently rebooted as an umbrella self designated term for a wide variety of beliefs, from Egyptian Ra worship to Norse assatru to indiginous native beliefs. There is no one ''pagan" religion.

    Some of these religions contain "magical" rites, some do not. Likewise not all that do "magic" or ritual would describe themselves as "pagan"

    As for Wicca, it's a fringe religion started in the 1950s, that invokes both Christian and non Christian elements. Not many wiccans would describe themselves as pagans, although some would.

    Or tl;dr

    Some "pagans" do "witchcraft" and some don't.

    Some people that do "witchcraft" are "pagan", and some are not.

    Much like how many mma guys do both BJJ and MT, but that doesn't make MT and BJJ the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  6. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I didn't say there was. All thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.
    Pagan, as an umbrella term, includes witchcraft.
    Just as the word 'cult', as an even bigger umbrella term, includes all religions.

    All religions contain magical rites, whether they acknowledge that or not.
     
  7. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    I said they were different things, which lead you to argue they were not. Now you seem to agree they mean different things.

    So you are arguing what exactly?

    With that said, no, not all witchcraft falls under the header of Paganism, as you seem to admit when you say all religions contain magical rites.

    Unless you are claiming all religions are pagan?
     
  8. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Of course not, gotta keep the tithes rolling in.

    Nobody said anything about any requirements, just that saying you are something doesn't make you an expert on that thing.
     
  9. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master Black Belt

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    Wow... this has got to be the fastest growing thread... 300+ in a few days?? Golly gosh! Haven't read a word of it, just thought I'd mention that XD
     
  10. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    going back a few pages, here is a documentary on who discovered American.

    for those who don't have an hour and a half spare, the conclusions are

    that anyone could have made it, right back to the ancient Egyptians, in that they had the boats and navigation skills to do it, using currents and trade winds. Hard evidence of who did is harder to come by. But there are credible claims for the Chinese, the Japanese , and multiple European and med cultures, but actual evidence they made it, for just the polynesians and the Vikings. And the Vikings did it in what are more or less rowing boats,

    though there are things like maps showing America and cocaine in Egyptian tombs etc that certainly suggest there was some contact.

    and someone, quite probably European, was killing mamoths 20,000 years ago,a good 7 thousand years before the clovis people turned up
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    That's an entirely different (and political) issue. That's not at all about destroying history, but about who should be glorified in history.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    If you look halfway down that at the "Modern Paganism" section, that's where Wicca fits in. Wiccans commonly refer to themselves as witches.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Or using it against vampires.
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Heck, I think that lets out most of the Christians I know.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Add to that the common current usages: polytheism (based on the original Christian usage), and nature-oriented religions. Both of those would also include Wicca.
     
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    It used to be. It has been co-opted by many non-Christians now.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    its clearly the same issue of destroying icons that represent things you disaprove of.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Similar motivation, different issue. And, quite a different reason, actually. Depends how you look at it.
     
  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Yes, I realize some people classify Wicca as 'modern paganism', and that wiccans sometimes call themselves witches. There are quite a few different subsects of Wicca, as it is with many religions/cults. Gardnerian/non gardnerian, Rede/non Rede. Some accept a horned god, others do not, some like to be called witches, others are straight up offended by that.

    You aren't going to find hard uniform definitions of much from the crystal and dreamcatchers set, just like you won't from most religious sects.

    Did you know there are over 30,000 flavours of Christianity alone?
     
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  20. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    its the same, reason,
     

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