WC Dummy for Dummies??

[AceHBK]

If you are not a WC practictioner do u think it is wise/helpful for u to try and learn it?
I am really interested in learning it but would it even be wise to try since I wouldn't know the real applications of it, unless I watch some videos or read more up on it and ask u all questions?

Thanks!

If there is a thread already on this please forgive me and could you post the link?

 

[ed-swckf]

If you are not a WC practictioner do u think it is wise/helpful for u to try and learn it?
I am really interested in learning it but would it even be wise to try since I wouldn't know the real applications of it, unless I watch some videos or read more up on it and ask u all questions?

Thanks!

If there is a thread already on this please forgive me and could you post the link?

To get a good understanding of exactly what the dummy teaches you then i really feel you would need to study wing chun. Thats not to say you couldn't find other valid uses for the instrument but they would likely be different from the ideas wing chun teaches. you could run the motions of the wing chun dummy form simply enough but the depth of the dummy is vast and subtle. In each movement theres a fair ammount to understand and it works on ideas, principles and movements you have gained an understanding of in other forms.

If you are not a wing chun practicioner why would you want to learn a wing chun form and why only that form? I feel the answers to that question may give light to others that arise.

 

[AceHBK]

If you are not a wing chun practicioner why would you want to learn a wing chun form and why only that form? I feel the answers to that question may give light to others that arise.

I think that with forms you can see the application of the move.
Not to say you will know it all but being a MA and not some orinary joe off the street, you can grasp some concepts. What things I have questions about, I would certainly make a thread in here and ask all you smart people..lol
I knwo to learn in depth about WC i would need to find a teacher but basics things I would think that I could pick up and incorporate into what I already use out of my primary art, TKD

 

[ed-swckf]

I think that with forms you can see the application of the move.
Not to say you will know it all but being a MA and not some orinary joe off the street, you can grasp some concepts. What things I have questions about, I would certainly make a thread in here and ask all you smart people..lol
I knwo to learn in depth about WC i would need to find a teacher but basics things I would think that I could pick up and incorporate into what I already use out of my primary art, TKD

The thing about the forms in wing chun what you see isn't necesarily what you get, for instance when you look at the first form you aren't presented with moves as they are used in application, you are given a conceptual idea on which to further build and understand. Just seeing where to put your arms on a dummy won't give you the understanding of what its teaching. You'll need explanations of the ways these moves arise, how to employ them, what energy feeds them and what energy is used to make them effective, how to hold structure and a lot of other stuff that begins being taught from day one.

If you want to learn basic things from wing chun i would suggest first studying the strarting point - sui lim tao, otherwise anything you gain from wing chun will just be swiss cheese. I'm not trying to say don't bother learning it but to get any worth out of what the dummy is teaching you in wing chun terms really does require you understanding the little ideas and nuances behind the shapes, energys and structures.

The other truth is its generally better to be an average joe of the street when begining to learn wing chun concepts and principles as they are very likely going to condradict the principles of TKD. Which is fine as you can still cherry pick parts of the system to suit you but you have to be aware that it would not be working as intended if the core priciples are dicarded, what you would get wouldn't be the wing chun dummy form even if it looked the same and how you applied it would also probably be very different. What you'd essentially be doing then is trying to bend your TKD ideas to act like something they aren't and i feel you'd be better off just treating the dummy as more of a blank canvas for you work ideas of TKD on.

There is nothing to stop you using a dummy and to incorperate it into your tkd training, in fact it can be a very useful training tool even when you remove the ideas of wing chun. So thats why i asked why learn wing chun and why that form, wing chun is heavily based on concepts and principles and if you want to use the shapes like hi-lo gann sau or kwan sau in a TKD manner then thats fine but the starting point of those techniques begins in sui lim tao and if you skip that part of the training you just have something that is perhaps aesthetically like a kwan sau but doesn't act like one.

I hope thats explained things and not sounded like i was trying to simply say you can't do it, i am simply giving an insight into why i don't think you would gain extensively from it and as dummys aren't cheap it would be a shame to waste the money. I know people, JKD mainly, who use dummies in a non wing chun manner and on a few occasions i've seen them become nothing more than a place to hang a coat as there turned out to be no use for it for them. Just food for thought really, good luck in your decision.

 

[brothershaw]

Well,,,

The majority of the wing chun hand positions have a similiar position in other arts, at a basic level. Tan sau is very vaguely like an outside or inside block in karate in terms of blocking so to speak a mid level punch.
However in actual application and usage the energy, timing and idstance are different.
So if you had lets say karate training and practiced on the wooden man it might give you something ( improved coordination for eaxmple) but not the full benefits.
Would you have the time to learn the wing chun movements correctly for the wooden man? Which means learning wing chun
Would you use the stuff you already know from what ever style you do
know on the wooden man?

Sure you could practice combinations and sequences on the wooden man but it might not be anything you could actually pull off without all the background stuff.

With wing chun if you just take bits and pieces some you can end up with alot less than you think, that may not be worth the trouble.

give 3 guys a chainsaw
1 guy cuts his fingers off
1 guy cuts down a tree and builds a house
1 guy makes fancy ice sculptures

 

[AceHBK]

The thing about the forms in wing chun what you see isn't necesarily what you get, for instance when you look at the first form you aren't presented with moves as they are used in application, you are given a conceptual idea on which to further build and understand. Just seeing where to put your arms on a dummy won't give you the understanding of what its teaching. You'll need explanations of the ways these moves arise, how to employ them, what energy feeds them and what energy is used to make them effective, how to hold structure and a lot of other stuff that begins being taught from day one.

If you want to learn basic things from wing chun i would suggest first studying the strarting point - sui lim tao, otherwise anything you gain from wing chun will just be swiss cheese. I'm not trying to say don't bother learning it but to get any worth out of what the dummy is teaching you in wing chun terms really does require you understanding the little ideas and nuances behind the shapes, energys and structures.

The other truth is its generally better to be an average joe of the street when begining to learn wing chun concepts and principles as they are very likely going to condradict the principles of TKD. Which is fine as you can still cherry pick parts of the system to suit you but you have to be aware that it would not be working as intended if the core priciples are dicarded, what you would get wouldn't be the wing chun dummy form even if it looked the same and how you applied it would also probably be very different. What you'd essentially be doing then is trying to bend your TKD ideas to act like something they aren't and i feel you'd be better off just treating the dummy as more of a blank canvas for you work ideas of TKD on.

There is nothing to stop you using a dummy and to incorperate it into your tkd training, in fact it can be a very useful training tool even when you remove the ideas of wing chun. So thats why i asked why learn wing chun and why that form, wing chun is heavily based on concepts and principles and if you want to use the shapes like hi-lo gann sau or kwan sau in a TKD manner then thats fine but the starting point of those techniques begins in sui lim tao and if you skip that part of the training you just have something that is perhaps aesthetically like a kwan sau but doesn't act like one.

I hope thats explained things and not sounded like i was trying to simply say you can't do it, i am simply giving an insight into why i don't think you would gain extensively from it and as dummys aren't cheap it would be a shame to waste the money. I know people, JKD mainly, who use dummies in a non wing chun manner and on a few occasions i've seen them become nothing more than a place to hang a coat as there turned out to be no use for it for them. Just food for thought really, good luck in your decision.

Thank you for the great and sound advise that you have given me, I truly appreciate it.
I have started to reseach siu lim tao on the net so I can find out how to do it and read up more about it so that I can learn. Any helpful advice and/or websites you can share I will greatly appreciate it. I have no problem learning from the beginning. I am big on learning the traditional ways of things so I understand where things come from.

I will though not try and incorporate it into my TKD at all for awhile. I know that when you do cross train you have to keep both systems seperate in order to learn everything. My primary art is TKD but on the side I have someone teaching me Shaolin Kung Fu and I have to make sure that I dont mix the 2.
I have this urge to learn more about WC b/c of what it teaches. It is the total opposite of TKD and I hope that I can learn a lot over time in WC so that it can help with the hands that I like to focus on since TKD has all the kicks.
Now I see that the dummy is just one part and you have to learn the system, especially the beginning so that you get a good understanding of it all.

 

[ed-swckf]

Thank you for the great and sound advise that you have given me, I truly appreciate it.
I have started to reseach siu lim tao on the net so I can find out how to do it and read up more about it so that I can learn. Any helpful advice and/or websites you can share I will greatly appreciate it. I have no problem learning from the beginning. I am big on learning the traditional ways of things so I understand where things come from.

I will though not try and incorporate it into my TKD at all for awhile. I know that when you do cross train you have to keep both systems seperate in order to learn everything. My primary art is TKD but on the side I have someone teaching me Shaolin Kung Fu and I have to make sure that I dont mix the 2.
I have this urge to learn more about WC b/c of what it teaches. It is the total opposite of TKD and I hope that I can learn a lot over time in WC so that it can help with the hands that I like to focus on since TKD has all the kicks.
Now I see that the dummy is just one part and you have to learn the system, especially the beginning so that you get a good understanding of it all.

In addition to any online research you do or any videos or books you might want to see if there are any schools local to you, it may help solidify anything you learn theoretically.

 

[SAVAGE]

Anybody got blueprints of how to build a dummy?

 

[barriecusvein]

Anybody got blueprints of how to build a dummy?

There are prints all over the net. But the best thing to do is find a dummy you like and take the specs from that one.

 

[SAVAGE]

There are prints all over the net. But the best thing to do is find a dummy you like and take the specs from that one.

Yeah, but I am looking for ones that people recommened!

 

[MA-Caver]

If you are not a WC practictioner do u think it is wise/helpful for u to try and learn it?
I am really interested in learning it but would it even be wise to try since I wouldn't know the real applications of it, unless I watch some videos or read more up on it and ask u all questions?

Thanks!

If there is a thread already on this please forgive me and could you post the link?

Of the few times I've used them I've found them to be very helpful to learn blocks and where to place my hands and to move quickly.