Vehicles as weapons

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by PhotonGuy, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    but you've just invented an average speed of 40 mph to support an argument. Why do you think maintaining control matters, as long as the vehicle can keep moving, in the end the Westminster,attacker crashed in to a fence and couldn't dive it any more, by that time there were multiple fatalities

    if he had crashed sooner there would have been fewer, but he didn't,
     
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I didn't invent that speed to support the argument. I used that speed (as the upper end of a range of 30-40 MPH) when I made my original statement.

    As for keeping control, it matters for precisely the reason you state. If they swerve hard enough to tip the van, they don't achieve the purpose of swerving in the first place.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    If you see the car coming at you, you might be able to move out of the way. But that's not how this goes down.

    The decision is whether we are going to put Jersey barriers along every road now to prevent cars from leaving the road.
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    now you've invented a van,
    there is no requirement on them to turn up a a vehicle and drive at a speed to fit your scenario. There is no reason they can't slow down, pick their target and then accelerate it again, or just run everyone over at 10 miles an hour
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually, a van is the most common vehicle used in recent attacks. Not invented.\

    Agreed, it probably could go down at a lower speed if the crowd is dense enough - I haven't looked to see what estimated speeds were in the recent attacks. Again, I'm simply following up on my earlier post, in which I cited a higher speed than that. I made no statements that an attack would have to be 30-40 MPH; rather, I stated what would likely happen at that speed.
     
  6. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    Agreed! Breakfalls are the most underrated set of all the possible skills you can learn in MA. Not just for fighting, for any situation in life where you find yourself saying 'oh crap' as the earth pummels towards you.

    I am confident I would be dead today after a cliff climbing accident I had 20 or so years ago, where I was lucky and aware enough to be abe to 'sort of' roll out of a 15 foot fall. I was bumped, bruised, and my arm wasnt the same for a few weeks, but i lived.
     
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  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You just make tank traps for parades and stuff. On wheels that sink down and lock.
     
  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    So it sounds like the best way to avoid being hit by a vehicle that's being used as a weapon is to avoid being in areas where there's tight crowds and where there's no room to move and where vehicles can go. This weekend and on Monday I was in Tennessee to see the solar eclipse. Lots of people were there but we were in a big field where a vehicle wouldn't be likely to go and if a vehicle did go there, there would be plenty of room to move. The crowd was big but there was still lots of room to move. Tomorrow I am going to Manhattan, hopefully I won't be in a situation where I can get hit by an attacker using a vehicle to hit people.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    It would be difficult to avoid being in such a situation in Manhattan, or most any city.
     
  10. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    So I was thinking, a weapon of sufficient caliber fired into the engine block of a vehicle, would it stop it?
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sure, if it hits something important enough, while still having enough velocity to damage it sufficiently.

    I'll note that technically the caliber isn't the telling point. It's the force it exerts when it hits, combined with the type of bullet. I'd think a LRN would have a tough time penetrating much, unless it's a massive bullet traveling pretty dangled fast. A FMJ has a better chance. A slow bullet probably has less chance of penetration than a slightly lighter one that is traveling much faster. Someone here will have thought that bit of physics through better than I, hopefully.
     
  12. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    less on the physic of ballistics' more on the physics of engines, its a case of how,soon you want it to stop, a hole in the radiator will stop it about ten minutes from now, a hole in the crank cases, which are ally will stop it about half an hour from now when it runs out of oil, a hole in the,cylinder block( IRON OR,ALLY) will make it run very rough, but won't stop it any time soon, though it will have problems getting up hills.

    IF you can shoot the dissy cap off or with a diesel get the. Fuel pump , then its going to stop more of less straight away.

    if you want to stop it,soonest, i would be more inclined to aim at the driver, that said there is probably some elephant gun that will smash it to bit with five or,six shots, its having one to hand that's the problems, your not going to do anything much with a pistol
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed. If shooting at the engine compartment, there are a few places where we might stop it faster. Hit something electrical and kill the circuit might work. With some of the aluminum engine blocks, a .50 cal rifle might be able to punch in and shear off a rod or just deform a cylinder enough to bring things to a clanking halt immediately. Something hitting the fuel line would work in a few seconds. All of that requires a blind shot through the hood or sides of the car, and would be less effective than shooting the driver through the windshield.
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    As they say if it is not on youtube it didn't happen.

     
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  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Contrary to what some media are reporting the incident in London yesterday outside the Natural History Museum was a road traffic accident. A private hire car driver lost control and crashed. It is not a terrorist incident. The driver has been arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving and I imagine is somewhat shocked at the response his crash caused.
     

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