Usjjf nationals

[Robert Carver]

Mr. Denz and Mr. Luciano:

It is obvious that my previous comments have either been ignored, or you are failing to comprehend what I am saying. If you go back and read what I had previously written, I have never said that (1) you have to be a black belt to have an opinion, and (2) that wrestling is not a valid martial art. Please go back and read my previous posts (slowly this time) and you will see that I have never said nor implied either of the two above items.

In fact, with regard to your previous posts, I have acknowledged your opinions, and thanked you for your suggestions. This feedback is important, and I am glad that you are willing to provide it. However, I do not know how many times I can continue to say the same thing. You both seem to want to harp on the same things, over and over again. As such, my replies will continue to say the same thing. Rather than continuing to repeat myself, please reread my previous posts.

Datu Hartman and the others: Your complaints all seem perfectly valid, and if they are substantiated (which I have no reason to doubt any of you), then perhaps addressing this through the proper channels would be more appropriate then hashing them out here on MartialTalk. My suggestion would be as follows:

First, draw up a list of complaints concerning the tournament and the officiating. Complaints are fine, but it is always better to be constructive and offer suggestions on how to remedy the problem.

Second, contact both the President of the USJJF, Bruce R. Bethers, and our Referee Chairman, Michael Piaser. These are really the folks who should be hearing your complaints. For one, they are in a position to not only acknowledge your complaints, but also to take action, and they were there at the Nationals, and can more correctly address your complaints. I am not the person to address with regard to your complaints.

Mr. Krol: I appreciate your comments. A couple of things on your last comments. First, as I have previously stated, JJIF rules call for returning competitors to their feet when neither has a competitive advantage. If opponents were able to squirm or run out of bounds, then it is obvious that the other competitor was not in control, and did not have a competitive advantage. Thus, it would be appropriate to return fighters to their feet. That is what the JJIF rules state, and that is how it should be enforced. If you do not care for that as a rule, then I am sure there are other venues that will more appropriately fit your disposition. Second, head shots ARE allowed. The difference is the strikes to the head cannot be “straight” punches or kicks to the head or face area. However, a mawashigeri type of kick would be permitted under the rules.

Gentlemen, this discussion is going no where. I am not in a position to change what has happened, nor can I sooth bruised egos. All I can do is state what the policy and rules are, acknowledge your opinions and thank you for your suggestions. I can also tell you that I “feel your pain”, which I really do (no I am not being flippant). I understand how it feels to believe you were treated unfairly and that some matter beyond your control has caused you not to perform to your best ability. Hey, I have been “ripped off” at tournaments before, and it sucks. Yes there were problems at the USJJF Nationals. That has been acknowledged. Now all we can do is learn from the mistakes and make sure it does not happen again. Yes Mr. Krol, the appropriate officials at the USJJF are reading this thread and I am sure that your and the other complaints and suggestions are being taken seriously.

As I am continuing to repeat myself, I will now bow out of this discussion. I have too much to do to continue to say the same thing over and over again. Please take my suggestions above, and address your complaints to the proper folks. If you have already started this process, then good for you. Keep that dialog open, and you will have far better success than addressing them here.

Thank you again for your feedback and suggestions. Best of luck in the future.

Respectfully,

 

[ace]

Mr. Carver I have written back & forth with Mr. Piaser
He gave me his Baseball Bat Thery When it come to
Grapplers & Grappling.

Perhapes U should talk to him.
Also I have herd that some competiters did not even have to way in.

Again I have been a big suporter from the little pond
For USJJF I'm the one who conviced people to go.


: I am quite board of this debate.
I had know intentions on even geting envoved.
Untill Both Wrestling & Mr.Denz were Malked.

U know (Rasslen)

 

[Jeff Cook]

This is kind of a strange thread. People with legitimate concerns about the USJJF nationals voice their concerns. A representative of the USJJF aknowledges those concerns, thanks them for their opinions and observations, and explains some of the misunderstandings concerning the rules. Yet he continues to be misquoted and treated in an overly-defensive manner.

It seems that the explanations are being ignored or misunderstood, and negative and derogatory remarks are being perpetuated.

I would like to give the benefit of doubt that some of you folks are misunderstanding Mr. Carver and are not purposely ignoring him to further some nefarious agenda. If your agenda is to improve the quality of competition in the USJJF, you share that agenda with Mr. Carver and myself. We are one big martial arts family, as someone else so aptly noted. Let's remember that.

With that said, what is the "baseball bat theory?" Also, why do you think that the closed guard is not allowed in competition? My understanding is that the kidney lock is not allowed, but that is not the same as the closed guard (although it is executed from the closed guard by extending the legs).

I have recently started ju-jitsu competition for the USJJF in Florida, so I am learning and I want to make it the best competition in the country. Analyzing this current situation is important to me to achieve those goals. Your comments are appreciated.

By the way, I have had a number of brazilian and other wrestling stylists compete in my divisions; they have done quite well, with very few complaints. In case any of you are wondering, not only do I teach Japanese-based ju-jitsu, but I am also a BJJ student as well.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I don't believe there is any negative agenda on anyones parts, but perhaps a few points were missed by reading too fast. (Happens to me sometimes).

I think the short version of all this is is that several individuals (Jeff and Primo to name 2) participated in an event that did not go over the way it was supposed to, and that there were several incidents of mis-communications that made things worse. Mr. Carver, who is an ranking officer in the sponsoring organization has acknowledged their complaints and supplied a way to communicate them to the proper individuals, as well as looking into them himself. It is now up to the individuals with the issues to take them up on the proper channels in a professional manner. The fact that there is video of these issues will help, I think.

I have to believe that the issues that happened at this event will be looked into, and the mistakes corrected for future events. I haven't heard anything bad about the USJJF or its events before this...its always been my (admittedly limited) understanding that they are a good organization.

Peace.
:asian:

 

[Jeff Cook]

Bob,

Thanks for your mature and common-sense perspective! By the way, I like what I have seen of your board so far.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

 

[ace]

Hello in Florida hows the sun.
This debate just keeps going an goin
Energizer is going to be looking for a royalty check.

This started out with one person giveing his Opion.
He was there he should be aloud to express his feelings.

I was there to I saw how it went.
USJJF has put on many good Events.
This is not inquestion.

But one bad Apple spoils the hole bunch

The base ball bat thery.
I said in an E-Mail That the guys i work out with,
Liked this form of compatetion.
Cause it had striking & ground fighting
& cause most real fights go to the ground.

The Reply was that while they were on the ground
his friend would be geting the bat.
Now hey the bat would be verry useful.
My reply was most Grapplers have friends to.

I mean no disrespect towards anyone
But i felt that coment was uncalled for.

 

[JDenz]

I would also like to say I have compeated in other Usjjf tournaments and have good experiances with them as well. Primo is a national champ and a North American champion in Usjjf.
In fact the whole reason that we went to this tournament is because of how the other tournaments were ran. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Carver it is not his fault that the tournament was bad. He was not there and had no influence on what was going on at this tournament. However he is the Vice President of the USJJF according to there web sites and posts. We have been in E-mail contact with those running the tournament and After we talk to Mr. McPeek we will be sending a written discription of our compliants.
I want everyone to understand If the rule is in there rulebook even if I am misunderstanding or misinterrpreting it is one thing. Like my friend lee with the punches to the head. All head shots are supposed to be under control I understand that and I am not going to rehash all these same complaints agian and agian. But the shots were there and hard.
Anyways the reason that I am writting in this forum is to let people know how bad the tournament was, not just the powers that be but most competitors. I would advise people to stay away from nationals the way they are run. Everyone that I talked to at the tournament was disappointed in the way it was run I am surprised more people didn't complain already on the web. Hopefully this is an aberration and the usjjf will once agian take off. Anyone that is going to go to this tournament in the future should be aware of how things are run though. Weather or not they fix things will reamin to be seen but at least they care enough to discuss the problems with us.
With regards to the closed guard rule we were expressly told no closed guard, and every closed guard at this tournament was broken. Although that doesn't mean that is the offical rule that is the way it was enforced at the tournament.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by ace

Hello in Florida hows the sun.
This debate just keeps going an goin
Energizer is going to be looking for a royalty check.

This started out with one person giveing his Opion.
He was there he should be aloud to express his feelings.

I was there to I saw how it went.
USJJF has put on many good Events.
This is not inquestion.

But one bad Apple spoils the hole bunch

The base ball bat thery.
I said in an E-Mail That the guys i work out with,
Liked this form of compatetion.
Cause it had striking & ground fighting
& cause most real fights go to the ground.

The Reply was that while they were on the ground
his friend would be geting the bat.
Now hey the bat would be verry useful.
My reply was most Grapplers have friends to.

I mean no disrespect towards anyone
But i felt that coment was uncalled for.

Hey Primo,

Just a thought, a side note here, maybe we could get together the next time I am in Buffalo area and we could do some stick sparring, and allow it to go to the ground. Just a thought from a stick jock. You could practice some stick work form the ground, and I get to practice on the ground period. One of my weaker points. The last time you just tied me up in a leg lock for a demonstration that technique works on all sizes.

Nothing against anyone in this thread, just a random thought running through my head at this time.

Ciao

Rich

 

[ace]

Sounds Good to me

I love to have some fun.
Hope to see U soon

Have a nice day

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Jeff Cook

Bob,

Thanks for your mature and common-sense perspective! By the way, I like what I have seen of your board so far.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

Hi Jeff. Welcome and Thank you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by ace

Sounds Good to me

I love to have some fun.
Hope to see U soon

Have a nice day

Ace,

You going to be around for the Dr Gyi Bando Seminar in October? I will be out there for the weekend.

Just curious

Rich

 

[ace]

im not sure i have the money to go.
but i would be happy to come
work out & spar.
it can be aranged
Let me now when U are in Buffalo
Primo.

 

[JDenz]

You should come grapple with the boys Rich another face is always welcome if you are ever in town

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by JDenz

You should come grapple with the boys Rich another face is always welcome if you are ever in town

Hey Guys this is not a challenge.

I am only looking to gain more knowledge, so don't you all gang up on me know.

I let you guys know.

Thanks

Rich
:asian:

 

[JDenz]

It was not meant as a challange. just an offer. we are a friendly school.

 

[ace]

Rich U are apart of the family circle
feel free to come & train with all of us.

It will be fun everyone is welcome
We train hard so the real thin is easy.

Rich take care we look farward to seeing U

Primo & friends

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by JDenz

It was not meant as a challange. just an offer. we are a friendly school.

Jdenz,

I did not take it as a challenge from you. I just wanted everyone else who did not know me to realize that I was not cahllenging you guys ;~).

No Harm, No foul, No Worries

Rich

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by ace

Rich U are apart of the family circle
feel free to come & train with all of us.

It will be fun everyone is welcome
We train hard so the real thin is easy.

Rich take care we look farward to seeing U

Primo & friends

Ace,

Thanks for the invite. I have registered for the Dr Gui Seminar and should be in town that weekend.
I'll look you guys up. It is good to have Friends and Family.

Thanks again

Rich
:asian:

 

[JDenz]

Ya it will be great there isn't really anyone with a big ego at the school anymore I would have to say. It is a cool atmospere almost like faimily.

 

[ace]

:redeme:
In the end
The 2002 Nationals