Any thoughts on this? I see both good and the potential for bad.
http://usa-taekwondo.us/news/article/8093
Daniel
http://usa-taekwondo.us/news/article/8093
Daniel
USAT announces historic Kukkiwon special dan testing
- Thread starter Daniel Sullivan
- Start date
MasterWright
Purple Belt
If it was really necessary, I guess it's ok. It could inadvertently help create more of the McDojangs that we have been talking about lately.
It's only available to U.S. residents, so it does not affect programs in other countries.
It's only available to U.S. residents, so it does not affect programs in other countries.
I can see this as a bad thing for the sakeof bad instructors, that might not be able to get one. For those that need this I have one question if you was training all this time why did you not get what you wanted back then? Me I have a semi instructor that is going to skip so he can became a 4th but like I told him if he trained all the time then this would not even be an issue.
I see as merely an opportunity. For someone who has intentions to rake in money, they still have to do the actual work of testing. Terry, you've told us all about a guy you know that paid a GM big $$ for the genuine certs. THAT guy isn't gonna walk into a legit test such as this & put his skills on the line. It's too much actual work.
Right but the test is merely a formality, if you do the poomsae seminat you do not need to do them for the testing. I was told the actual test is less than an hour, so what is being tested in that short time frame. Yea I forgot the elusove check writing poomsae.
Sorry could not resist everybody.
It just seems like another way to make a buck via promoting someone and keeping them in the fold.
terrylamar
Blue Belt
Most of you seem to be a touch cynical.
To me, as they state and I do take it at face value, it is a way to get the rank you have earned recognized by the Kukkiwon.
I think they are doing a great service and saving everyone who test a good deal of money by not having to fly to Korea and test at the Kukkiwon.
To me, as they state and I do take it at face value, it is a way to get the rank you have earned recognized by the Kukkiwon.
I think they are doing a great service and saving everyone who test a good deal of money by not having to fly to Korea and test at the Kukkiwon.
I'd be interested in the cost of the tests. Are they the same as what the KKW charges instructors, or is a "central" GM or group getting a cut & charging their own prices?
Here you go Tom if you are wanting a 1-3rd you do not even need be there. The bolded parts are what worry me, if it is not about money why are they charging for three ranks even if you are just getting one.
Kukkiwon will hold a mandatory 12-16 hour Poomsae seminar on the 13th and 14th of February during the U.S. Open in Las Vegas, with testing to occur either later on the 14th or on the morning of the 15th. All applicants shall submit a resume of their martial arts history, complete the Kukkiwon forms, and where applicable submit a copy of their current Dan rank certificate. In addition, 4th Dan and higher applicants must take the seminar. 6th Dan and higher applicants must also submit a 10-page thesis on their experience and philosophy of Taekwondo; such as "Taekwondo and My Life".
"This is an unprecedented and exciting opportunity for Masters to achieve their deserved Kukkiwon ranks," said USAT CEO David Askinas. "We are hoping to receive a positive response from the taekwondo community so we can schedule the testing event in Las Vegas at U.S. Open."
USAT will be posting application forms guidelines on this website. We will want your current Kukkiwon Rank, your desired rank, and a letter detailing the reasons why you believe your promotion is justified. The applications will be reviewed by USAT and the Martial Arts Commissions for acceptability and forwarded to Kukkiwon for final review. Applicants who meet all necessary requirements to qualify for testing will receive notice of approval their application in advance of the test date.
"This is a remarkable and rare opportunity to make Taekwondo history," added Martial Arts Commission Chairman Grand Master JP Choi. "Every eligible Taekwondo Dan holder in the USA should embrace this moment with enthusiasm and apply for promotion without delay. The chance may never come again."
Fees for testing will be charged in the following manner and are due at the time the application is received. An applicant will be charged for a maximum of three Dan rank tests regardless of the number of ranks involved in the test. For example, if an applicant is applying for the new Kukkiwon Rank Recognition Test or seeking a Skip Dan Test, he/she will be charged only for the three highest rank test fees. For example, a 3d Dan seeking 7th Dan would pay fees only for 5th, 6th, and 7th Dan. Similarly, an applicant seeking a Rank Recognition test for 7th Dan, will also only pay test fees for the three highest testing ranks (in this case, 5th, 6th, and 7th Dan-). If only one or two rank promotions are being sought, the applicant will be charged for those requested ranks.
The planned test is conditioned upon 70 approved physical test (4th-7th Dan and/ or those who are skipping three Dans) applications from Kukkiwon.
1st Dan-3rd Dan applicants do not have to take a physical test and are not required to be in attendance at the testing. However, these applicants are strongly encouraged to attend and compete at the U.S. Open and attend the poomse seminar, which will be taught by the best instructors from Kukkiwon.
It is important that all applicants submit their applications and other materials not later than January 7, 2009. USAT and the Martial Arts Commission will promptly review the applications and submit them to Kukkiwon. Kukkiwon will issue notice of approval in time for travel arrangements to be made. Should the test not go forward in Las Vegas in February, the back up plan is to hold it in July in conjunction with the Junior Olympics and Senior Nationals which will be held in Austin, Texas.
Another special testing opportunity for 8th and 9th Dan will be offered later in 2009 by the Kukkiwon if all applicants meet the Kukkiwon requirements.
Please address all questions to USAT CEO David Askinas [email protected] or Grandmaster Joon Pyo Choi, Co-Chairman of the USAT Martial Arts Commission [email protected].
Kukkiwon will hold a mandatory 12-16 hour Poomsae seminar on the 13th and 14th of February during the U.S. Open in Las Vegas, with testing to occur either later on the 14th or on the morning of the 15th. All applicants shall submit a resume of their martial arts history, complete the Kukkiwon forms, and where applicable submit a copy of their current Dan rank certificate. In addition, 4th Dan and higher applicants must take the seminar. 6th Dan and higher applicants must also submit a 10-page thesis on their experience and philosophy of Taekwondo; such as "Taekwondo and My Life".
"This is an unprecedented and exciting opportunity for Masters to achieve their deserved Kukkiwon ranks," said USAT CEO David Askinas. "We are hoping to receive a positive response from the taekwondo community so we can schedule the testing event in Las Vegas at U.S. Open."
USAT will be posting application forms guidelines on this website. We will want your current Kukkiwon Rank, your desired rank, and a letter detailing the reasons why you believe your promotion is justified. The applications will be reviewed by USAT and the Martial Arts Commissions for acceptability and forwarded to Kukkiwon for final review. Applicants who meet all necessary requirements to qualify for testing will receive notice of approval their application in advance of the test date.
"This is a remarkable and rare opportunity to make Taekwondo history," added Martial Arts Commission Chairman Grand Master JP Choi. "Every eligible Taekwondo Dan holder in the USA should embrace this moment with enthusiasm and apply for promotion without delay. The chance may never come again."
Fees for testing will be charged in the following manner and are due at the time the application is received. An applicant will be charged for a maximum of three Dan rank tests regardless of the number of ranks involved in the test. For example, if an applicant is applying for the new Kukkiwon Rank Recognition Test or seeking a Skip Dan Test, he/she will be charged only for the three highest rank test fees. For example, a 3d Dan seeking 7th Dan would pay fees only for 5th, 6th, and 7th Dan. Similarly, an applicant seeking a Rank Recognition test for 7th Dan, will also only pay test fees for the three highest testing ranks (in this case, 5th, 6th, and 7th Dan-). If only one or two rank promotions are being sought, the applicant will be charged for those requested ranks.
The planned test is conditioned upon 70 approved physical test (4th-7th Dan and/ or those who are skipping three Dans) applications from Kukkiwon.
1st Dan-3rd Dan applicants do not have to take a physical test and are not required to be in attendance at the testing. However, these applicants are strongly encouraged to attend and compete at the U.S. Open and attend the poomse seminar, which will be taught by the best instructors from Kukkiwon.
It is important that all applicants submit their applications and other materials not later than January 7, 2009. USAT and the Martial Arts Commission will promptly review the applications and submit them to Kukkiwon. Kukkiwon will issue notice of approval in time for travel arrangements to be made. Should the test not go forward in Las Vegas in February, the back up plan is to hold it in July in conjunction with the Junior Olympics and Senior Nationals which will be held in Austin, Texas.
Another special testing opportunity for 8th and 9th Dan will be offered later in 2009 by the Kukkiwon if all applicants meet the Kukkiwon requirements.
Please address all questions to USAT CEO David Askinas [email protected] or Grandmaster Joon Pyo Choi, Co-Chairman of the USAT Martial Arts Commission [email protected].
terrylamar
Blue Belt
Cost of the actual Kukkiwon Test, varies by Dan. If you are skipping grades, you will be charged, only, for the last three ranks.
There is a $15.00 USAT admistration fee per Dan.
4th Dan and above must take the Poomsae Seminar $45.00.
Must be a member of the USAT $35.00.
There is a $15.00 USAT admistration fee per Dan.
4th Dan and above must take the Poomsae Seminar $45.00.
Must be a member of the USAT $35.00.
I just do not understand how you can became a third dan without even testing for them. This is just marketing to the masses and making money so easy. I have hav about thirty people tell me they can just send in paperwork and get to third without even testing. How do I explain this to my people.
Are 1st through 3rd simply riding the recommendations that I assume are accompanying the application? Isn't there something about being 4th or above to promote someone to 1st?
terrylamar
Blue Belt
Just sending in your paperwork is an exception. You will have to justify your request.
Otherwise, your Kukkiwon certified instructor, 4th Dan and above or the USAT will have to do it.
How is this different than a regular promotion? You don't appear before the Kukkiwon. It isn't mandatory until, I think, 6th Dan. You will have to have already passed your Dan test 1st, 2nd and 3rd and provide a copy.
There are some exception, but you will have to justify those. A committee at the USAT will look at them before passing them on to the Kukkiwon. Then a promotion comittee at the Kukkiwon will look at them. You still may not be approved.
This is an opportunity of those that have been passed by, for whatever reasons, that can justify their request to be promoted.
I still suggest this is a good thing and completely above board.
Just for example, I have a 3rd Dan, he was promoted by his former instructor an 8th Dan, before I took over the school.
Why he did not receive his Kukkiwon certificates is beyond me. This is an opportunity for him to receive his 4th Dan Kukkiwon. He attends class just about every day and has for years and years. He has the time in grade for 4th from his 1st Dan promotion. Yet, he doesn't even have 1st Dan. Why would I give him his 1st Dan and make him wait for his 2nd and 3rd Dans when he was promoted so long ago? This opportunity allows him to catch up to where he should be and isn't for some inexplainable reason.
I think there are many people in the same situation or simular situations that have, honestly, earned their rank, paid their dues and did not get the Kukkiwon certificate they deserve.
No if you are a fisrt dan from somebody or has been with somebody but never got a KKW you can apply without anything but your resume, let say you have competed at the US open or at national and all you had was a BB cert. from your instructor that is not KKW, you can get up to a third without even testing as long as they can verify your claims. So if you are AAU and have place ay National over the last ten years now you can have that KKW certs without ever testing.
terrylamar
Blue Belt
You still have to submit your certificates, Kukkiwon or not, your Martial Arts Resume and recomendation from your current instructor.
If you don't have a recomendation from your instructor or you don't have and instructor you have to give justification of why you should be promoted.
It then goes through two promotion comittees, USAT and the Kukkiwon. It can be disallowed at either level.
Technically, you are correct. Nevertheless, you must have earned whatever rank you are requesting.
This is not right, David at the USAT says once the committee in Ohio and the USAT says it is OK the KKW will issue no question ask. You are right for some this is good for others it is a way to get something without testing, if I was a red belt and had someone to say I was a BB and my paperwork got excepted than I would be a BB by the KKW without a test. I hope this does not became an every year thing at the US Open.
terrylamar
Blue Belt
From the USTA website:
"USAT and the Martial Arts Commission will promptly review the applications and submit them to Kukkiwon. Kukkiwon will issue notice of approval in time for travel arrangements to be made."
I took that to imply that the Kukkiwon had some process of approval. I have not talked to David Askinas about this specifice issue, so you may be correct.
Yea sometimes we have multiple threads about the same thing.
