United Martial Artists for Christ

[JowGaWolf]

Not my cup of tea, but to each his own

Yeah. I consider myself a Christian and sites like that make me nervous.

Being a lapsed Catholic and someone who now, if forced to describe their practice, follows a path that combines Buddhist and Confucian principles, I can explain the problem. I once had a talk with a family friend who is a Priest and he explained the issue this way when I tried to argue that eastern and western practices were compatible. At the time I was still a practicing Catholic but had started meditation as a form of stress relief.

When one meditates, he said, in the Eastern method one is looking within for peace within ones self. However peace can only be found through God. One can not simply meditate in order to recognize ones true conditions, to "simply" allow negative emotion to wash away so that we can not only be better people ourselves but to then likewise treat others with more respect. No amount of meditation, he said, can melt away the Sin that separates us from each other, God and true peace.

The Bible, he said, even commands us to meditate but it commands us to mediate upon the Word of God and to reflect upon the Sins that seperate us from him.

Then, by extension, anything that is born of meditation is contrary to Biblical Teaching. We can not cultivate inner strength (Chi) alone, such strength is born from accepting God into your heart etc., etc, etc.

It gets even more touchy when you talk about finding enlightenment within. A standard retort is "if you could find enlightenment within Christ would not have been sent to us, the only path to enlightenment is through accepting Jesus Christ."

I agree with you, there should be a difference, bit Christian Theologians says otherwise.

Thanks that paints a worse picture for me. Lol. From your statements, it seems that they are confusing new age meditation with martial arts meditation. I'm Christian and I've never thought of using meditation to wash away sins. I thought that's what prayer is for. Sometimes I think groups like that would be better served if they spent more time describing what they do and how they do certain things and less time defining themselves by what they are against.

 

[Juany118]

Yeah. I consider myself a Christian and sites like that make me nervous.

Thanks that paints a worse picture for me. Lol. From your statements, it seems that they are confusing new age meditation with martial arts meditation. I'm Christian and I've never thought of using meditation to wash away sins. I thought that's what prayer is for. Sometimes I think groups like that would be better served if they spent more time describing what they do and how they do certain things and less time defining themselves by what they are against.

I agree with you entirely but there is a fact. Eastern mediation is founded in the Faiths of the East. Now I started my Zen Meditation as a practicing Catholic, I saw no contradiction. I was finding peace, my center, before I started practicing Aikido. However, to the Christian theologian, coming to peace, to terms with yourself, outside of the ideas Sin/God in the path to peace... Is a dangerous concept.

That conversation is what brought about my concept. By using the definitions told to me by people trained specifically in the faith I wasn't one so... Yeah gotta love preachers. If something has an origin in a different faith it is, to them, by definition, tainted. Hence why I define my beliefs on my own terms now.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I agree with you entirely but there is a fact. Eastern mediation is founded in the Faiths of the East. Now I started my Zen Meditation as a practicing Catholic, I saw no contradiction. I was finding peace, my center, before I started practicing Aikido. However, to the Christian theologian, coming to peace, to terms with yourself, outside of the ideas Sin/God in the path to peace... Is a dangerous concept.

That conversation is what brought about my concept. By using the definitions told to me by people trained specifically in the faith I wasn't one so... Yeah gotta love preachers. If something has an origin in a different faith it is, to them, by definition, tainted. Hence why I define my beliefs on my own terms now.

To the Christian theologian you spoke to maybe. Some of the ones whom I've talked to actually encourage meditation (they view inner peace and washing away sin/peace with God as two different things). Of course, you stated that the one you talked to was catholic, while I am Lutheran and most of the Christian scholars that I know are methodist, so that might have something to do with it.

 

[WaterGal]

I don't like groups like this. It's not the religion part that gets me, it's the "overboard paranoid" assumptions that bother me. For example, straight from their website: Karate - Martial Arts - Christian Martial Artists - Martial Artists for Christ
2. Be wary of a class that emphasizes meditation and breathing exercises.
3. Avoid instructors who claim to be able to teach "spiritual" principles like chi or ki and "internal powers.
4. You don't have to take lessons from only Christian instructors if you feel comfortable that your teacher takes a purely, "secular" approach, but you might want to share your own faith with him.

Noooo, don't "witness" to your martial arts teacher. That's always so awkward.

I don't necessarily have problem with an organization for martial artists who happen to be Christian, because there are all kinds of niche organizations out there for different special interests like that. But I think that kind of approach can lead to insularity and divisiveness.

In my opinion, one of the great things about activities like martial arts is that it transcends boundaries of nation, religion, race, gender, class, etc and can lead to people connecting in ways they never would have otherwise. If we all spend our times off in our little group of people just like us, how can we see our common humanity and grow as individuals or a society?

 

[WaterGal]

To the Christian theologian you spoke to maybe. Some of the ones whom I've talked to actually encourage meditation (they view inner peace and washing away sin/peace with God as two different things). Of course, you stated that the one you talked to was catholic, while I am Lutheran and most of the Christian scholars that I know are methodist, so that might have something to do with it.

Huh. My first exposure to meditation was actually in my Methodist youth group. IIRC, we were encouraged to meditate on concepts like love and compassion (rather than the clearing-the-mind or mindfulness approaches), which is pretty much exactly also a thing that some Buddhists do.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Huh. My first exposure to meditation was actually in my UMUC youth group. IIRC, we were encouraged to meditate on concepts like love and compassion (rather than the clearing-the-mind or mindfulness approaches), which is pretty much exactly also a thing that some Buddhists do.

I have seen Christians do both the type your talking about and the mindfulness type. None that I know seem to find a contradiction between either type and meditation with a focus on God.

 

[Ironbear24]

This is pretty much it. Yes they were Warriors. Heck if you look at what happens once the Jews reach Canaan the Jews literally commit a Genocide. Why? Because God willed it. This, and the History of "Christian" Warriors in the Crusades or in putting down "Heretical" movements is also to often glossed over unless you actually study History vs get taught it in High School.

If you are a Christian most believe that God willed it because the caanites were evil and threatened the Jews. Now whether you believe it or not is up to you, and I won't argue with you about it. Just because there are warriors in the Bible does not mean that the entire Bible is about that.

I feel like this type of outlook focuses too much on a small part of it. It's like if I were to take for example the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and fixate specifically on homosexuality.

That would be foolish because in that story the people of those cities did far worse things. Lawmen would attack people and then fine them for bleeding on the sidewalk, rich people would gloat about their wealth to the poor and rub it in that they had everything while they had nothing. They would even give them gold ingots with their crests inscribed into them. No merchants would take trade them though because they had assumed they had stolen the gold.

The person essentially staved to death while they were technically rich, the rich person would then loot their body and take their gold back.

So to fixate on homosexuality is like to fixate on Charles Mansons drug use, sure he did drugs, but the fact he was a murderous psychopath is far worse than dropping some LSD.

Anyway that's my take on this, they are taking a small part of a story and fixated too much on it when the entire message is not be a warrior and beat people up, but about being a better all around human being.

 

[Buka]

What we need now is a United Protestant Karate Fighters Union and a Jews for Kumite group, Muslims for Muay Thai, the Jehova Jump Kickers, and, of course, the Buddhist Bad Asses. Hell, we can host a tournament, I'll gladly ref.

I hope nobody takes my comment as blasphemous, just funnin' a bit. Let's all pull the trigger for Jesus, shall we?

 

[Ironbear24]

What we need now is a United Protestant Karate Fighters Union and a Jews for Kumite group, Muslims for Muay Thai, the Jehova Jump Kickers, and, of course, the Buddhist Bad Asses. Hell, we can host a tournament, I'll gladly ref.

I hope nobody takes my comment as blasphemous, just funnin' a bit. Let's all pull the trigger for Jesus, shall we?

Rastas for Randori. Judo for Jesuits. I can't think of anymore.

 

[Ironbear24]

teacher. That's always so awkward.

My sifu is a Christian and he talks about it sometimes but he never preaches about it. My older sifu from American Kenpo never spoke of his faith or lack of it, I have no clue what his faith was.

One thing that bugged me about one of the tournaments we went to which was hosted by Marc Unger held had a few minutes of prayer before the tournament began. We were not forced to pray but some individuals would give us dirty looks if we did not. Sifu was one of those who did not pray and one man told him "you are sitting a poor example for your students." He said to him " we are here for kumite and not for cathecism."

I agree with him entirely. I don't mind a moment of silence to pray, I just don't like when you host it as something optional but negatively judge people for excersicing the choice to not do it.

If that's the case then only invite Christians to your tournament if you have such an issue with non Christians, or people who simply don't pray before the kumite.

 

[Kickboxer101]

My sifu is a Christian and he talks about it sometimes but he never preaches about it. My older sifu from American Kenpo never spoke of his faith or lack of it, I have no clue what his faith was.

One thing that bugged me about one of the tournaments we went to which was hosted by Marc Unger held had a few minutes of prayer before the tournament began. We were not forced to pray but some individuals would give us dirty looks if we did not. Sifu was one of those who did not pray and one man told him "you are sitting a poor example for your students." He said to him " we are here for kumite and not for cathecism."

I agree with him entirely. I don't mind a moment of silence to pray, I just don't like when you host it as something optional but negatively judge people for excersicing the choice to not do it.

If that's the case then only invite Christians to your tournament if you have such an issue with non Christians, or people who simply don't pray before the kumite.

Personally I have nothing against religion and have no problem joining in if someone says a prayer and I like to believe there's an afterlife once we're dead since I've lost people and that thought is comforting but I'm just not into that whole thing where people put god before everything and anything like they can't even go out with a girl they like because it's forbidden or people who bad stuff and say it's in their gods name (that happens in a lot of religions) I'm a big believer in we make our own choices and deal with our own consequences no one else to blame or to use as an excuse we're the ones who control what we do not any gods. Like if I win a match it's because I'm better on the day or I worked harder not because god chose me to win.
That's not to insult any religious people that's just my beliefs if you're religious and that's what you believe good on you you believe what you believe. At the end of the day none of us knows what happens when our times up so all our opinions and beliefs all have equal value.

 

[Ironbear24]

I'm a diest. I believe in a god and afterlife but don't follow any particular religion. I just try to be less stupid each passing day.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I'm a diest. I believe in a god and afterlife but don't follow any particular religion. I just try to be less stupid each passing day.

Yeah? How's that going for you?

 

[Ironbear24]

Yeah? How's that going for you?

It's difficult but I will keep trying, after all if I quit then that will guarantee failure.

 

[Kickboxer101]

It's difficult but I will keep trying, after all if I quit then that will guarantee failure.

I'm sure, I was just messing with you sifu not had to kick your **** again yet?

 

[Ironbear24]

I'm sure, I was just messing with you sifu not had to kick your **** again yet?

He has but not because he had to. It was to teach me how to block better and after a couple of times getting punched in the face and the ribs I got a little better then before.

 

[Tames D]

It's difficult but I will keep trying, after all if I quit then that will guarantee failure.

Do they have a confessional booth?

 

[Ironbear24]

Do they have a confessional booth?

I'm not allowed in there anymore.

 

[Tames D]

What we need now is a United Protestant Karate Fighters Union and a Jews for Kumite group, Muslims for Muay Thai, the Jehova Jump Kickers, and, of course, the Buddhist Bad Asses. Hell, we can host a tournament, I'll gladly ref.

I hope nobody takes my comment as blasphemous, just funnin' a bit. Let's all pull the trigger for Jesus, shall we?

Although perhaps not based on spirituality, we can add a WKF to compliment the BKF.

 

[pgsmith]

I once had a prospective new student tell me that he couldn't do the bowing because it was too close to idol worship, and he couldn't do mokuso (moment of meditation before and after class) because it was against his religion. I told him "I would never require you to do anything that you thought went against your religion" as I walked him out the door.