1. NearRed

    NearRed White Belt

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    Hello People

    Someone here knows if the Two Man Set was incorporated into any version of the red book?

    Cheers
    Nelson
     
  2. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
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    I don't have any experience with that, Nelson, but welcome to MartialTalk, bro.
     
  3. NearRed

    NearRed White Belt

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    Thanks Buka on remind me to salute before ask, Im in martial talk before 2009 and I have lost my google account at that time, so last time I created this account with my new email and if there is a moderaror around maybe can help me on recovering my profile and account with the email I lost directly (near60@gmail.com).
    And regarding 2man set, Im waiting others red book version that I have buy and If I find answer to my question I will share here too..... Have a good day
    Nelson
     
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  4. Kenposcholar

    Kenposcholar Orange Belt

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    @NearRed , I am a Kenpo guy. Can you enlighten me on what this red book is? I may be able to ask around for you. :)I know that Juan Serrano has some detailed videos on the Two Man Set under the Youtube channel called "Casa De Kenpo". However, his version will likely be different than yours.
     
  5. NearRed

    NearRed White Belt

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    Hey Kenposcholar Im talking about "Accumulative Journal" - known as "the Red Book" or "Big Red" published by Edmund Parker, I have the 1975 version but I know there are more versions, so the only place where I have found the "Two Man Set" is in the book "secrets of chinese karate" https://www.amazon.es/Secrets-Chinese-Karate-Ed-Paker/dp/1453618767

    I Know What people like casa de kenpo did but Im looking if some day this set was included officialy just for the records:


    Regards
    Nelson
     
  6. Kenposcholar

    Kenposcholar Orange Belt

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    Gotcha! I had never heard of it referred to as those other nicknames. Really cool to know though, thanks!
     
  7. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I don't have access to "Big Red", but I know that the Two Man Set is listed in the "official" technique/set/form list as spelled out by the Infinite Insights series. So, at least at that point it was included in the official list of required material.

    hope that helps some.
     
  8. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    The Two-Man Set also known as "The Black Belt Set" initially, originally appeared in "Secrets of Chinese Karate" published in 1963. This was during Mr. Parker's Chinese Kenpo period under Sifu Ark Wong, when the only significant form was the Hung Gar version of "Tiger and the Crane," while other forms were a "work-in-progress" through the major efforts of Sifu James "Jimmy" Wing Woo.

    When Mr. Parker changed directions abruptly to create his "commercial art," he did not bring any of the traditional Chinese material over in the process, because it was too labor intensive and required a knowledgeable instructor who would have to painstakingly teach and make corrections.

    The "new" free form conceptually driven "Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate" was all about self expression akin to JKD, and designed first as a self-defense business that allowed students to "find what works for themselves." But, more importantly from Mr. Parker;s perspective, it did not require him to be on the mat with anyone on an extended or regular basis. It allowed him the freedom to travel and teach concepts, as opposed to being in a school all day and night telling students to "fix their feet," or "turn your shoulder" constantly as real basics training requires. The "system" essentially set him free to proliferate his ideas, at the expense of the meticulous basics training of the Chinese Arts which had to be abandoned for Ed Parker's Kenpo Karate to succeed.

    "Big Red" was a Studio Owners Business Manual That contained a "suggested" teaching outline, as well as business practice guidelines that was distributed to most a bit at a time as needed.

    While "Two-Man Set" was listed in Infinite Insights, it is important to understand the infinite Insights material was an accumulation of material from the sixties and early seventies that was ten years old at publication, and finally codified by Mr. Parker, but was in no way a mandated teaching list, but instead more of a historical reference written for all martial artists, not just his "Kenpo" people.

    For some the Infinite Insights Volumes are a "Bible." They shouldn't be. They should instead be viewed in the historical context for which they were intended. I am pictured and/or represented in every volume, and while it was fun to shoot, the inconsistencies were intentional to reach the largest audience from every style and discipline he could imagine.
     
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  9. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Can't say that I ever much liked Two-man set.
     
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  10. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    That's because it didn't make sense and had horrible mechanics. Tiger and Crane was another story sir.
     
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  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Ayup. Couldn't make any real sense of it.

    Strong dislike for the tiger/crane version that is found in the lineage I trained in. I don't know if it morphed into something different from what was taught in the 1950s-1969s, but I am certain that currently it is a long way off from any legitimate hung gar lineages.

    I don't like mimicking things that were borrowed from other systems. Sooner or later someone who knows it legitimately is going to see you do it, and then you get an uncomfortable lesson.
    .
     
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  12. Doc

    Doc Senior Master

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    And it never fails to come true.
     
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  13. Grandmaster Yue men quan

    Grandmaster Yue men quan Yellow Belt

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    I have a copy of the two man set from the book it was kiped from somewhere around the house. It was a training tool. If you look at 5 star it is a two man set also. Anything in the curriculum can be used in a two man set. When I left kenpo I studied tai chi, wing chun, pakua, anything that delt with two person sets and the sticky range. I truly wanted to master the short and long arm application's of kungfu. I long past that point now and realize that most arts are built on the tao and have interchangeable parts. When looking back at kenpo I started with it is a very beautiful thing and I wish I knew more and that ed parker was still around I learned through purple belt from one of his students and I have bought a lot of the kenpo books. But some of the things in this art I feel are lost in antiquity.
     

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