Training with the mind.

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by futsaowingchun, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

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    It's been a long time I have posted here. Something I throw out, That is mental training in Wing Chun or whatever style you train in.

    Most of my training I have done over has over the years has been in 3 or 4 basic stages of development .

    1st stage, the physical side learning techniques, drills, conditioning etc,and all the physical parts that pertain to that. 2nd stage, still physical but not so much technique based. emphasis on "structure" body aliment you get what am talking about. Emphasis was on energy development and use of structure using Chi Sao as the learning platform and some specific drills at times. Even though, this level is still very physical I call this the energy stage as it moves away from a technique emphasis to feeling your opponent and using structure which is not a technique based, but a way of using the body that relies on proper use of energy. 3rd stage, using your mind, or Yi at this stage the emphasis is not on, Techniques , or structure anymore. It about making a decision and just doing it. If you want to strike you just strike. If you want to move you should move. There is no proper Tan Sao or what it is supposed to look like. You simply just do it. Like reacting to a gun shot. No thought just do. I call this the mind level. The training is about using your mind to produce the desired effect. This is mostly done in meditation. Seeing it in your mind, perfecting it in your mind then producing it in the physical..

    This is nothing new, just my new perspective which maybe not all follow. Anyway, It's something not talked about much and it's an interesting topic to talk about.

    Any comments????


    Mike.
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah I don't think the mental training really is achieved through meditation but through diligence and hard work.
     
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  3. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    You dont achieve mental fortitude de by dilligence and hard work, you need mental fortitude to have the diligence to do the hard work
     
  4. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Senior Master

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    Some great observations there :).

    Yeah for sure, it does seem to go along those lines, and it seems that any sort of training for a length of time tends to progress to deeper more internal levels. Starts with gross physical, then refined physical, awareness of structure etc, subtle energetic changes, mental, deeper intuitive knowings etc

    It's all fascinating to me, but it's hard to say where one starts and where one ends, if at all. I know alot of the colour belt systems represent these changes too, but that's not to say that the student has definitely and guaranteed to have grasped that stage of what belt they've progressed from/to.
     
  5. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Studies show Mental Imagery can be a very important tool for performance.
    However, several factors are in play with imagery ability being one of the most important factors impacting the effectiveness. One’s ability to image includes different dimensions such as clarity, vividness, and kinesthetic imagery. Can you see yourself doing and actions and feel your body as you are go through the imagery.

    The same studies also show one's amount of experiences in actually performing a specific action greatly enhances the overall level of clarity and vividness.
     
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  6. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I agree with Drop Bear and Jobo -- it's kinda like a feedback loop. Also I like using visualization exercises (applies to forms, shadow boxing, ...bag work, etc.) like what Danny said. Right now, I'm visualizing that I am a total bad-*** and beating everybody up ...while I enjoy donuts and coffee. :p
     
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  7. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Now you got me visualizing a donut to dunk. Want one so bad.

    Son of a....
     
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  8. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    I call this the mind level. The training is about using your mind to produce the desired effect. This is mostly done in meditation. Seeing it in your mind, perfecting it in your mind then producing it in the physical..

    I know there are various definitions of "meditation." But this is not how I would define it. You are talking about what Danny described, and I agree with that. This is a common thing in Sports Psychology, but I don't think they consider it meditation. Visualization exercises, eliminating negative self talk and replacing it with positive self talk, goal setting, etc are all in the realm of "mental training." And all a great for any kind of physical skill development! Meditation is more about clearing the mind and letting the thoughts settle. If you are visualizing, planning, purposefully talking to yourself, etc....then this is not meditation in my opinion.
     
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  9. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Blue Belt

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    I think I mostly agree with you but would love to hear more details from @futsaowingchun about his experience/methods. I can definitely think of some religious practices that I would categorize as meditation, though they might commonly be called prayer, that involve an intense focus on visualizing a union with the divine or something similar. I have done some mental exercises based on or influenced by yoga and QiGong that involve intense visualization of one sort or another. I've also practiced a little bit of simplified transcendental meditation that was very much what you describe as clearing the mind and letting thoughts settle.

    So, while I have no experience with using meditation as a tool to visualize and improve a physical skill I can see the edges of how someone might go about that. Whether something qualifies as a form of meditation or merely, "visualizing, planning, purposefully talking to yourself", seems to me to be a matter of depth of focus, intent and methodology, but we're getting into the territory of semantics at that point. I would guess we could get some interesting and more objective information by doing brain scans and brain wave measurements on the OP while he was conducting these activities.123
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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