Difficulties training in different types of Wing Chun.

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by APL76, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. APL76

    APL76 Green Belt

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    Pin Choi, Dok Leung Choi and Jin Choi in Sum Nung wing chun all follow the principles that you mentioned, extend the punch completely, its exaggerated, for over training, all lining up coordination of the entire body. Then, once you have it, it is generally applied in only a fraction of the extension that's found in the training drills. Sounds like the same principle.
     
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  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The concept of "maximum reach" exist in many CMA systems. Long range reach is the DNA of the long fist system.

    In one sparring, I was 12 feet away from my opponent. My opponent didn't think I could reach him.

    - I jump up with my left foot.
    - land on my right foot.
    - I then move my left foot behind my right foot (stealing step).
    - I lean my upper body to my right, and
    - my right fist landed on my opponent's face.

    The jumping footwork, stealing step, body leaning, and leading arm and back shoulder make a straight line all contributed my distance covering.

    In weapon fight, if your sword is 1 inch longer than your opponent's sword, you will have 1 inch advantage.
     
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  3. Nc1992

    Nc1992 White Belt

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    That makes good sense on the question of ranges, though it seems like there is a lot that could be discussed on the topic of range. From that exchange though it sounds then like there is a connection of some kind with power generation in Sum Nung Wing Chun and the Long Fist and Tibetan White Crane styles.

    So now my obvious next question is where (if at all) does YM Wing Chun fit into the equation.


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  4. APL76

    APL76 Green Belt

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    Not necessarily. The principle of overtraining (making the movement bigger than its likely to be used to train power generation and coordination sounds like the same principal. However the way power is generated may not be the same (it might, I don't know the other styles but I suspect it would be different).

    In the Yip Man style I do I haven't seen anything quite like the stuff in the Guangzhou style,
     
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed. The principle may be the same, but how it physically manifests within the training methods of different systems could be very different. I believe this is one of the primary differences that distinguishes one system from another. It is in how those principles are put to work within the methodology.

    This is also why I caution people that some systems may not mix well. They may follow the same principles, but if the manifestation is different, then they have a completely different foundation. That does not mix.
     
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  6. Nc1992

    Nc1992 White Belt

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    Both good points, I did not think of that. Still would be an interesting experiment comparing for someone with the time or resources.




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  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    One phrase my first Sifu would say: be big in order to become small.

    I think this is a perfect example. Learn to generate power with exaggerated movements (big) and then you can generate the same power without the exaggeration (become small).
     
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  8. APL76

    APL76 Green Belt

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    I have seen what Flying Crane is talking about happen a number of times. One on of the most striking examples is one of the guys I used to train with years ago, he had done wing chun for about 4-5 years, training with my Sifu. He started about a year and a half after me I guess. He was awesome at it. Had the right body type, very soft force (just the kind we need for wing chun, how we do it anyway), very good sensitivity, extremely fast with his hands, and on his feet with a great centreline.

    What brought him to wing chun however was watching Once Upon a Time in China. He was happy to do wing chun until one of Jet Li's instructors moved to the Canberra region and started teaching Wu Shu and Tai Chi. He decided that he was going to do both Wing Chun and Wu Shu. My Sifu warned him that he would have to chose one or the other if he wanted to do either well, as the way they generate power would be entirely different. He tried to do both for a while and his wing chun detreated so fast it was actually quite surprising. The two were just incompatible. In the end he ended up sticking with the Wu Shu.
     
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  9. Nc1992

    Nc1992 White Belt

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    Oh I can imagine, very interesting.

    Although I should clarify when I said it would be interesting to experiment my thought was looking at separate individuals training in each style and comparing their approaches to power generation


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  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    For a time I was training Tracy family kenpo (Chow/Parker lineage Hawaiian kenpo) at the same time I was training White Crane. In kenpo, we were practicing punches in a square horse, punching to the front with the shoulders very square.

    My White Crane would creep in and I would begin to rotate. My kenpo teachers were constantly telling my to stop over-rotating, keep the shoulders square.

    In my White Crane classes, my kenpo would creep in and I would not rotate enough. Sifu kept telling me, turn more!

    I was doing a hybrid that was not correct for either method. I realized I needed to choose one or the other, or else neither would be very good. I was leaning toward Crane, and one day in kenpo class as we practiced in a square horse with shoulders squared, I remember saying to myself, “this is destroying my White Crane.”
     
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When I cross trained the Bagua system, during the circle walking, I need to move my leading leg first. This contradict to my Shuai Chiao circle running training that I always move my back leg first. The Bagua circle walking also violate the basic MA guideline, never cross your legs in front of your opponent.

    Some MA systems are not only different. They contradict to each other.123
     
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