Training in Shanghai
- Thread starter Kyoshi
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Xinglu
Black Belt
YES DO IT! 
that is my advice
that is my advice 
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Pardon me but "Chinna" is driving me crazy, nothing personal but can we please use the pinyin "Qinna" thank you. For a minute I was not sure it was not a miss-spelling of China. I know Wade Giles spells it Chinna but you are talking modern day mainland and it is mostly pinyin which would be Qinna 擒拿 (Pinyin: qín ná; Wade-Giles: ch'in2 na2)
ggg214 is in Shanghai or very near it so he would know better than I as to what is there and who may legitimately teach a westerner. If it were Beijing I would suggest the Yao brothers since you are only there 3 to 4 months but that is Yiquan. But Shanghai I have no idea. There are others on MT that may be able to help you more as well
Now
Do you speak Mandarin? Start there.
If you do then it will be easier, if you don't then you may need to higher an interpreter and you will pay considerably more money for the training and you will need to pay the interpreter too.
Also it is Buyer Beware; There are a ton of folks in China just waiting to take western $$$ so you need to figure out if there is a legitimate Sifu that will teach you and then decide on style.
All styles of CMA have Qinna to varying degrees but if you go there and find a legitimate Sifu and approach him with the attitude that you are only interested in Qinna you may find that they do not take you all that seriously and if you are from the US and don’t speak the language you are already at a disadvantage because so many westerners show up there looking for training and many are not really all that serious and many there have no problem charging a westerner 3 to 4 to 10 times more than they would charge a Chinese person. Or he may not teach you. Find a charlatan and he will happily take your money and show you junk.
ggg214 is in Shanghai or very near it so he would know better than I as to what is there and who may legitimately teach a westerner. If it were Beijing I would suggest the Yao brothers since you are only there 3 to 4 months but that is Yiquan. But Shanghai I have no idea. There are others on MT that may be able to help you more as well
Now
Do you speak Mandarin? Start there.
If you do then it will be easier, if you don't then you may need to higher an interpreter and you will pay considerably more money for the training and you will need to pay the interpreter too.
Also it is Buyer Beware; There are a ton of folks in China just waiting to take western $$$ so you need to figure out if there is a legitimate Sifu that will teach you and then decide on style.
All styles of CMA have Qinna to varying degrees but if you go there and find a legitimate Sifu and approach him with the attitude that you are only interested in Qinna you may find that they do not take you all that seriously and if you are from the US and don’t speak the language you are already at a disadvantage because so many westerners show up there looking for training and many are not really all that serious and many there have no problem charging a westerner 3 to 4 to 10 times more than they would charge a Chinese person. Or he may not teach you. Find a charlatan and he will happily take your money and show you junk.
Xinglu
Black Belt
Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.
Sifu should be Shifu (师父 if we are using pinyin
Otherwise, yeah, I totally agree! Good advice.
Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (咏春, or Cai Li Fo (蔡李佛 The latter should be easy to find. Either way you go there is good Qinna to be found. Of course there is Taijiquan (太极拳 and that is the easiest to find and the qinna there is amazing.
I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!
Sifu should be Shifu (师父
if we are using pinyin Otherwise, yeah, I totally agree! Good advice.
Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (咏春
, or Cai Li Fo (蔡李佛 The latter should be easy to find. Either way you go there is good Qinna to be found. Of course there is Taijiquan (太极拳 and that is the easiest to find and the qinna there is amazing.I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!
Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.
Sifu should be Shifu (师父
Otherwise, yeah, I totally agree! Good advice.
Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (咏春
I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!
You're not going to find CLF or Wing Chun in Shanghai most likely. It's too far north to find the Southern Hands.
You should find Praying Mantis, Eagle Claw, Mi Zong, Taiji at the Chin Wu there though. You can probably find some other stuff around like Xingyi, Bagua or maybe some Shuai Jiao or some other long fist type stuff.
Sifu should be Shifu (师父
Off topic:
Can someone clear this up? I thought *Sifu* was the Cantonese and *Shifu* Mandarin. ??
It is.
Sifu is the Cantonese (language of the patriots & southerners... both good things!!!
but I can't figure out how to say "Y'all" or "yonder" in cantonese. If I could, I'd be in heaven!! ) Fan Ching Fuk MingShifu is the Mandarin (language of gov't & such) Bu xie
Pinyin is the standardized English spelling as put out by the PRC rather than the Wade Giles or other written spelling guides.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Not to nit pick.... BUT if you insist on him using pinyin spellings then you use non-pinyin spelling >>>I<<< get confused.
Sifu should be Shifu (师父
Otherwise, yeah, I totally agree! Good advice.
Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (咏春
I say go and find a legit teacher, worry less about style and more about quality of instruction. Then you will have an amazing time and learn much!
Actually it is likely just me I can deal with sifu and most recognize sifu, I know shifu is pinyin where sifu…well I am not sure what it is. It is not Wade-Giles (or at least I don’t think it is - shi pinyin is shih wade-giles) and Chinna is Wade-Giles. Basically I have a problem with Wade-Giles. SO that leads to I cannot deal with things like Chinna that the majority of mainland people would be clueless about that is if they understood or knew pinyin and it is my guess that a lot of legitimate shifu types in China may not due to age they will understand 擒拿.
But Wade-Giles… I am not sure many young or old on mainland would know what the heck you were trying to say. I suspect they may, if they know pinyin, be able to figure out sifu, particularly in the south (and Shanghai is south), but I could be wrong. I know more about things North.
First let me preface this with, the little mandarin I know has a Beijing accent so my pronunciation of Shifu may be somewhat different than a lot of mandarin speakers
Sifu is Cantonese with a Cantonese tone si1 fu6 and Shifu is Pinyin with the mandarin tone of shi4 fu… but don’t ask me how to pronounce si1 fu6 Cantonese have more tones than Mandarin. Beijing Mandarin stops at 4 tones
Since I believe that the Wade Giles equivalent to Shi is Shih. Sifu is to my mind pronounces seefoo where shifu is (here is the Beijing accent part) pronounced shrfoo. But so be honest I am not actually sure where the spelling of sifu comes from I will have to ask my wife.
And anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this but
Both 師傅 and 師父 are I believe used for shifu but
師傅 is more directly translated into teacher tutor
Where師父 is directly translated into teacher father
However my Chinese characters are not so good and I had to look the first one up so I could be wrong on that or both actually
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Sounds right to me, but then what do I know about Shanghai..its south and everyone knows all the GREAT stuff is in the NORTH
But it is my understaning, as far as Taiji goes, is that it is mostly Wu style but there are other things there and there is Xinyiquan too but I am not sure how much. There was a poster on MT a while back whose name was Xinyiquan and he trained in or around Shanghai and he also had a website. I think you can find it in one of his posts of possibly profile if it is still active.
Kyoshi - Check out the Yongchun (咏春
As to finding Qinna in Taiji; Yes there is lots of it (to varying degrees depending on style) but finding a real live taiji shifu that will teach a foreigner that is only there for a few months a lot of Qinna I am not sure about
That about covers it
It is.
Sifu is the Cantonese (language of the patriots & southerners... both good things!!!
Shifu is the Mandarin (language of gov't & such) Bu xie
Pinyin is the standardized English spelling as put out by the PRC rather than the Wade Giles or other written spelling guides.
Sounds right to me, but then what do I know about Shanghai..its south and everyone knows all the GREAT stuff is in the NORTH
But it is my understaning, as far as Taiji goes, is that it is mostly Wu style but there are other things there and there is Xinyiquan too but I am not sure how much. There was a poster on MT a while back whose name was Xinyiquan and he trained in or around Shanghai and he also had a website. I think you can find it in one of his posts of possibly profile if it is still active.
As to finding Qinna in Taiji; Yes there is lots of it (to varying degrees depending on style) but finding a real live taiji shifu that will teach a foreigner that is only there for a few months a lot of Qinna I am not sure about
That about covers it
I knew I could count on you two. :asian:
And by the way Xue....everyone knows all the good stuff is in the SOUTH.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Just another typical Southern North envy type response Now if I may ask a favor.... :anic: please don't tell my Taiji sifu or my last Wing Chun sifu I said that
I knew I could count on you two. :asian:
And by the way Xue....everyone knows all the good stuff is in the SOUTH.
:jaw-dropping: YEAH!!! :tantrum: Well if you wern't hundreds of miles away with your SOUTHERN Preying mantis style..... :anic: I wouldn't be so brave in my response...
Now if I may ask a favor.... :anic: please don't tell my Taiji sifu or my last Wing Chun sifu I said that
:jaw-dropping: YEAH!!! :tantrum: Well if you wern't hundreds of miles away with your SOUTHERN Preying mantis style..... :anic: I wouldn't be so brave in my response...
LOL! Damn straight boy. (and if I wasn't hundreds of miles away I wouldn't be so brave in my response)
Now, if I had my SIFU here with me, then it'd be a go. hee hee
blindsage
Master of Arts
Just because it annoys you? Pinyin may be considered more 'correct' these day (including by me), but many Americans' exposure to particular Chinese terms is only to the Wade-Giles version. That's not their fault. If you don't like Wade-Giles, no problem, don't use it, but don't get upset with others who don't have your level of exposure to the Chinese language or the 'official' transliteration system. Take the time to explain it if you feel the need, but telling people they need to get with the program in this fashion is kind of counter productive.
Xinglu
Black Belt
I'm just giving you a hard time
And anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this but
No, I think you're right
Xinglu
Black Belt
True, but if he is to find any southern hands, I think he'd have an easier time finding those as they seem more widespread.
Personally, I favor xingyiquan so I will biasly and shamelessly plug it
The problem will be finding some one to train him for such a short time.Any chance you can extend your stay over there?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
As I said in a post after that, it is likely just me.... but since Wade-Giles is understood by just about no one in Shanghai and that is where the OP is going……..
And I am sorry I will strive to be nicer next time, and I was not upset with the OP I was upset with the use of a Wade-Giles that is not used in China and if ones goal is to live in China it is best to hear it here not there.
There are a lot of people that feel you can just pop over to China and train MA and that is simply not the case if you don't have connections there and/or you don't speak the language and if it is a real live Chinese Sifu the don't take to kindly to someone showing up and saying I want to learn X from you. It is not easy to hear but most good Chinese sifus know better than you do as to what you are ready to learn and they are not real trusting of strangers.... but they may like the strangers money. And it is real easy to find someone that will take your money to show you just about anything.... although they themselves may no little.
When I went there I thought it would be easy too (and my wife is from there) and it wasn't. I eventually found a real live Sifu but I chickened out because of lack of self confidence in the style, not much time and the fact he spoke no English and I spoke so little Mandarin I might as well say I didn't speak any at all. And he scared the hell out of me with a look, which Xingyiquan people are very good at doing.
I apologize if I offend but just popping over to China to learn Qinna is not as easy as it sounds and using a spelling that pretty much no one there will know will not help.
If one comes to MT and ask about Chinna I might say it is spelled Qinna you come on MT and say I am going to China and I want to learn Chinna you better know at least the pinyin, but to be honest I saw none there. And that is absolute no guarantee that the Sifu you find will have a clue as to what Qinna is. The guy that scared me off would have no clue what Xingyiquan or Hsing-i Chuan was, but he would know 形意拳 and he knew what I was talking about when I said Xíngyìquán.
I don't mean to offend and I do not mean to be argumentative and I do not want to upset anyone but the reality is it just is not that easy to do and there are a lot of people there (some legitamate masters) that feel taking money from westerners is a sport and he who takes most and shows least wins. However, speak the language you will be taken more seriously or have a real trusty translator who will tell you what is going on you are less likely to have problems.
I'm just giving you a hard time
And anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this but
No, I think you're right
No worries and thanks
And being a recovering Xingyiquan addict myself I agree about Xingiquan
blindsage
Master of Arts
I understood that, I just thought explaining it would be better than implying someone was way out of line for using Wade-Giles on an english forum when they probably have no idea of the points your making.
Now this is a very useful explanation.
and even more great contexual information, thanks for sharing.
Do most people actually know pinyin transliterations in China?
That all makes sense.
Thanks for following up with a lot of insightful points.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Younger and educated, meaning mostly under 50, who learned English in school likely know pinyin.
My wife is very good with pinyin but she was taught English from junior high on. And her Hospital even sent her for more English and Japanese after she was out of college and she teaches Chinese in college here and all the students must learn pinyin and Chinese characters. Also my young nephew that lives there in China is pretty good with pinyin, but he has been studying English since the 2nd grade and is now in Junior high and another nephew is pretty good to but he is now in college and has been studying English since grade school. So there are people in China that know pinyin but the also read and write Chinese and that is what you see everywhere. I do believe you would be hard pressed to find any that know Wade-Giles.
I did not see any pinyin or much English written anywhere and when I was last there, but that was before the Olympics, I am told there are more English signs there now.
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