Training half of martial arts bugs me.

[drop bear]

Anyway back on topic.

And just to show that a demo can also include the details that make a technique work.

Someone mentioned it somewhere that they couldn't.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I think there would be too much ego for that to happen.

I mean we can't even see a video of people's training for fear of something or other.

But if anyone wants to we hold an open mat precisely for that reason so feel free to drop in. (Obviously after the coronavirus thing)

But yeah. I don't care about looking stupid or getting handled by people. It is part of the development.

Not sure if this is directed at me or not...but I've no issue sharing my training. I've done so via private message when people have asked for clarification in the past. I've no issue posting it on here, there just hasn't been a need (and at the moment I can't, unless you want me to show you with my sub-5ft fiancee which I'm pretty sure would prove nothing).

But as I said, a month, or even a week, of just us training together and more importantly sparring together would do wonders. It would set the wheat from the chaff, and possibly let those who think they know what they're doing reevaluate that. And for those of us who doubt them and assume they run a mcdojo/fail to teach SD, they'd have the chance to show their techs work in person, and we'd have the chance to deny it if it sucks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I honestly can't think of a single time you showed proof of anything though. So I don't think it is something you can suddenly start complaining about me not having to do it.

I am operating to your standard.

And surprisingly your standard suddenly becomes not good enough.

In other words your logic is so flawed even you don't accept it.

I'm not saying you should provide proof. I'm saying you have a very odd notion of how proof works: I should defend my claims and disprove yours, but you needn't defend yours. Because you're convinced you're right (though you've admitted you assume lack of proof is proof of lack).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think there would be too much ego for that to happen.

I mean we can't even see a video of people's training for fear of something or other.

But if anyone wants to we hold an open mat precisely for that reason so feel free to drop in. (Obviously after the coronavirus thing)

But yeah. I don't care about looking stupid or getting handled by people. It is part of the development.

I think there's less ego on others' parts than you imagine. I also think you and I would get along a lot better if we could get on the mats and train. As I've said before, I'd be unsurprised if you handed me my *** on the mats, as I suspect you train harder than I have in the last 15 years.

Heck, one of the most fun things to me is to find someone who can destroy me in an area where I have gotten comfortable (because I'm better than the folks around me in that area. I missed a chance to experience that with Tony when I visited him (we never actually rolled - I was too busy picking his brain on some technical bits). I suspect you're better at stand-up sparring than me, and it'd be fun to find out how much better.

 

[dvcochran]

Anyway back on topic.

And just to show that a demo can also include the details that make a technique work.

Someone mentioned it somewhere that they couldn't.

What part of the world are you in Bear?

 

[drop bear]

Not sure if this is directed at me or not...but I've no issue sharing my training. I've done so via private message when people have asked for clarification in the past. I've no issue posting it on here, there just hasn't been a need (and at the moment I can't, unless you want me to show you with my sub-5ft fiancee which I'm pretty sure would prove nothing).

But as I said, a month, or even a week, of just us training together and more importantly sparring together would do wonders. It would set the wheat from the chaff, and possibly let those who think they know what they're doing reevaluate that. And for those of us who doubt them and assume they run a mcdojo/fail to teach SD, they'd have the chance to show their techs work in person, and we'd have the chance to deny it if it sucks.

Just directed generally and I agree with you.

It will just never happen.

People would have to face loss or hardship. And this whole argument that has evolved is about never having to do that.

 

[drop bear]

What part of the world are you in Bear?

Australia.........

 

[drop bear]

I think there's less ego on others' parts than you imagine. I also think you and I would get along a lot better if we could get on the mats and train. As I've said before, I'd be unsurprised if you handed me my *** on the mats, as I suspect you train harder than I have in the last 15 years.

Heck, one of the most fun things to me is to find someone who can destroy me in an area where I have gotten comfortable (because I'm better than the folks around me in that area. I missed a chance to experience that with Tony when I visited him (we never actually rolled - I was too busy picking his brain on some technical bits). I suspect you're better at stand-up sparring than me, and it'd be fun to find out how much better.

Too busy to roll.

Then I guess we will never know.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not saying you should provide proof. I'm saying you have a very odd notion of how proof works: I should defend my claims and disprove yours, but you needn't defend yours. Because you're convinced you're right (though you've admitted you assume lack of proof is proof of lack).

Bollocks.

I used your arguments for about 4 posts and you lost your damn mind over it.

Lack of proof is proof of lack.

"So, you can’t even come up with the allegations. As I expected.

This is a weak attempt, even for you."

 

[dvcochran]

Australia.........

That would be a bit of a drive for me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Lack of proof is proof of lack.

What kind of proof are you looking for?

Should people put up their personal clip to prove what they can do?

A: How many people have you killed?
B: I have killed many.
A: Show me the bodies.
B: ...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Too busy to roll.

Then I guess we will never know.

Yeah, I told Tony afterward that was a mistake on my part. I got too busy learning new stuff, and missed a great chance to find where he'd chew up my ground game. Too busy learning to get to the real learning. There'll be a next time, hopefully.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Lack of proof is proof of lack.

Absolute logical fallacy.

 

[skribs]

Anyway back on topic.

And just to show that a demo can also include the details that make a technique work.

Someone mentioned it somewhere that they couldn't.

That's a 2 hour, 22 minute video. Of course they can include all of the details.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Absolute logical fallacy.

Compeltely off topic, but the thing i love about logical fallicies is there is a fallacy about something being a fallacy. I am not touching this with a pole, but i thought i should mention that. Nor am i implying anything here was or wasnt a fallacy, just relaying a amusing one, which i think people forget. (seen too amny arguments devolve into arguing about fallacies rather than the substance. despite it being irrelivent and not for a partisan to determine most of the time)


Can somone TL;DR me the argument in question here also? I will have a scrummage but i dont know what this most recent argument stems off from. (plus recapping at least the high notes might aid the argument)

Edit: Also for that traveling to australia comment, am i the only one who thought of the jack sparrow meme?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Compeltely off topic, but the thing i love about logical fallicies is there is a fallacy about something being a fallacy. I am not touching this with a pole, but i thought i should mention that. Nor am i implying anything here was or wasnt a fallacy, just relaying a amusing one, which i think people forget. (seen too amny arguments devolve into arguing about fallacies rather than the substance. despite it being irrelivent and not for a partisan to determine most of the time)


Can somone TL;DR me the argument in question here also? I will have a scrummage but i dont know what this most recent argument stems off from. (plus recapping at least the high notes might aid the argument)

Edit: Also for that traveling to australia comment, am i the only one who thought of the jack sparrow meme?

There’s really not a valid TL;DR version. It’s a conflict over about 4 years.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Lack of proof is proof of lack.

Sometime common sense doesn't require proof. If "groin kick, face punch" doesn't work for you, it will be your problem and not the "technique problem". You don't need any video to prove that will work.

 

[drop bear]

Absolute logical fallacy.

Except when you do it. Like when I quoted you doing it and then ignored your own quote.

To then make a point unrelated to the conversation. But deceptively looks like it is related.

You pick and choose these logical process to make the fantastical real. Which then justifies your methods. Which is fine but that doesn't make stuff work.

Stuff working makes stuff work.

Evidence is showing stuff working.

Then you don't need to spend more time on all this mental gymnastics than you do effectively training something that is solid.

Yeah but how am I the judge of something solid? I don't hear you ask.

It is solid because it works. And I know it works because there will be evidence of that.

It will work predictably, consistently and in a way that I can make a reasonable judgement that the whole thing isn't made up. Which I will call accountably.

Without that method martial arts has been shown not to work.

When we see a self defense demo that looks ridiculous and everyone tries it and it fails and the only people who say it works are people who will never show it works.

It doesn't work.

And they are full of crap.

This is not an accusation.This is a basic method from sorting out a reputable martial artist from a fake.

Or a false accusation from a real one.

 

[drop bear]

Sometime common sense doesn't require proof. If "groin kick, face punch" doesn't work for you, it will be your problem and not the "technique problem". You don't need any video to prove that will work.

No.

I could potentially bash the crap out of a guy who attempt groin kick face punch because the way they have trained it has been super dumb.

They may have only trained half the martial art. (Which bugs me)

So I need a video to see if they are doing something fundamentally wrong but are successful because their training environment is a den of lies.

 

[drop bear]

That's a 2 hour, 22 minute video. Of course they can include all of the details.

Ok. What would be the point of only including half the details and then going out there and drilling it wrong?

What, then 6 months down the track say "By the way guys all that time an effort and you still suck is because this"

Those details are why people should train with someone who has a clue what he is on about.