Training disarms with a laser cartridge

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by Runs With Fire, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. Oni_Kadaki

    Oni_Kadaki Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Honestly, for your purposes, I'd recommend a good, semiautomatic airsoft gun. While I personally am not that familiar with airsoft technology, I've trained with simunitions with the military a few times (including yesterday and today), and they are often more trouble than they are worth in my opinion. For example, unlike airsoft, which, if I'm not mistaken, requires only eye protection for safety equipment, simunitions require a large pad to protect the groin and a face mask to protect the face at a minimum. The face mask in particular is troublesome, especially when you're working with a carbine, because it basically ensures you can't get a good sight picture.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,683
    Likes Received:
    2,025
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    There are procedures that can be used to reduce the possibility of a live round getting into a scenario using real guns. No live ammo in the room. Check, double check, triple check before using the weapon. Flags or other similar devices to prevent ammo from being chambered. (The laser gadget might qualify for that.)

    But, even so, it's an invitation for tragedy on one side or the other. Even with good safety procedures, and people mostly adhering... live ammo or weapons have gotten into scenario areas. Or people have left the training environment and discovered they never loaded up... The BEST practice is to avoid using live guns in this sort of training. Airsoft, marking cartridges, even squirt guns are easily available and cheap.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Oni_Kadaki

    Oni_Kadaki Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You're not wrong. As said, I probably would not replicate my sensei's training method. That being said, I did get some good training out of it, but it's simply not the risk to practice this way further in the future.
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,715
    Likes Received:
    4,578
    Trophy Points:
    308
    When I trained it we used rubber band guns. We knew when we got shot. And if we break them just replace them

    Having disarmed knives, bottles and even the occasional phone off guys. Again it is a timing issue not so much a technique one.

    I see the weapon and just launch at them. Then hang on like a dog until the give it up.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,812
    Likes Received:
    7,012
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    With a gun, there is the added dimension of controlling where it points, and (especially for that reason) needing to possess it quickly.

    Practicing disarms, as a whole practice - has two major points to it. Firstly, to get the brain a bit more familiar with struggling over a weapon (rather than freezing). Secondly, to get a chance to tinker and find out what becomes a problem when there's a pointy (or other dangerous) object involved. The basics are pretty much what you said - get in fast, get some control, and stay with it until you own it.
     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    18,715
    Likes Received:
    4,578
    Trophy Points:
    308
    You don't really want to be staring down the buisness end of a broken bottle either to be honest. You tend to get that pointed away as well.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Oni_Kadaki

    Oni_Kadaki Green Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Honestly, up close and personal I'm more afraid of a knife. While a gun is obviously the greater threat at range, in grabbing range you're relatively safe if you can keep the muzzle pointed somewhere else. Because a knife has both the point and the edge, it can threaten you from multiple angles.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,663
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    If you don't want to spend the cash on simulators (which can certainly be pricey) this is a good option. Rubber band guns, squirt guns (maybe with some red water colors added for gruesome effect) and such work well. Large markers or chalk sticks work well for knife simulations. Or a plastic/rubber knife with some paint (or similar) along the edge.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,588
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Look you can use real firearms you just have to make sure there are plenty of safety guidelines.

    Every time you handle it you check and have someone else recheck that it is unloaded and safe.

    In class if we are using a real gun every time we pick it up we check that it is safe and show the class that it is safe.



    Never use a firearm in a demonstration that hasn’t been checked and then verified by another person.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,663
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    Sure. You can. There's lots of things you CAN do that are still stupid.
    In my car, I can reach speeds of over 200 MPH. Do you think it would be stupid of me to do so on my way to work tomorrow evening?
    There are way too many readily available, affordable, completely safe options to ever excuse using a real gun in these sort of exercises.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,812
    Likes Received:
    7,012
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Agreed. If it needs the absolute feel of a real gun, there are ways to alter one to be incapable of handling a live round and make it recognizable as such. Yep, it can be expensive if you buy a gun specifically for that, but if it's that important...
     
  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Trophy Points:
    263
    What car do you have?
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    23,812
    Likes Received:
    7,012
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    It's an old Yugo. Yellow.
     
  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Awesome.

    A woman down the road used to have a Yugo 45 in mustard - I always wanted that car.
     
  15. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,683
    Likes Received:
    2,025
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Spatulas... There are some rubber spatulas that are great knife substitutes. They're inexpensive, and stiff enough to be useful without being too rigid. And they have an "edge."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Messages:
    21,683
    Likes Received:
    2,025
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Northern VA
    Absolutely... yet, every year, in an academy somewhere, there's an accidental discharge in a classroom or someone shot in simulation training that wasn't supposed to have live ammo. Typically, when you look through, you find the "oh, he just stepped out for a moment, and nobody checked him when he came back" instant... but still, worth trying to avoid. We typically use a flag system that prevents a round entering the chamber and indicates that the gun is safe if we're doing something with real but empty guns... Here is a link to the sort of thing I mean.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,663
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    Nothing much. Just a 20 year old Chevy. Bone stock.
    At least, that's the description I give when setting up a race. :)

    It's actually an semi-accurate description. It really is a 20 year old Chevy.
    Corvette.
    With an 815HP engine.
     
  18. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,663
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    I'm also willing to bet you're not pointing them at people, despite the flag.
     
  19. Runs With Fire

    Runs With Fire Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Ensley Center, MI
    For knife work, we use rubber or cold steel trainers. Wet the edge and coat it in red chalkline powder. Wear a white t-shirt.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16,663
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    There's a real nifty knife simulator I've seen (but never tried) that has, essentially, an electrical wire along the edge. I'm sure that's about as close to real as anyone should ever get. And closer than I'd willingly get. The descriptions I've seen sound painful.123
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

laserlyte laser