TKD is Weak on the street as a self defense?

[Buka]

Lol. Let me punch you.

I'm serious, I find his statement odd. Any context about it?

As for punching me....it's quite the popular club you would be joining, by all means have at it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't understand what he means by this.

For a lot of grapplers, their skills dissolve when you hit them.

 

[Steve]

I'm serious, I find his statement odd. Any context about it?

As for punching me....it's quite the popular club you would be joining, by all means have at it.

It's a clever way of saying that as you begin to feel yiur control of a situation slipping away, you panic and as a result, your technique suffers.

 

[Steve]

For a lot of grapplers, their skills dissolve when you hit them.

People. Not grapplerrs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People. Not grapplerrs.

True. The point I was making about grapplers is that they are less likely (on average) to have been exposed to the experience of being punched than strikers or striker/grapplers. Take a BJJer who has been exposed to that, and they will dissolve less than someone being exposed to it the first time.

 

[inkypaws]

Hi everyone

I took my first TKD ITF lesson yesterday, I really enjoyed it.

I do have however have some concerns, I'm always reading how TKD is simply too impractical for the street as a defense art and it's one of the arts to be avoided along with Aikido.

Could someone give me some clarity on this?

The place I just joined has the TKD and also has Street awareness incorporated in to the sessions.

My initial thought was to take TKD and also do either JUDO/JJJ along side with it.

My main goal is to be able to protect my family if a dangerous situation were to occur.

I know this is responding to an old post, but the info of both is still there to read for however comes along after regardless of original dates. Beauty of older style forums vs more modern social media.
My first class I learned how to stop an attack from behind. Tuck chin, side step and elbow them with fist facing up (to prevent hitting funny bone) to middle of attackers chest.
That alone answered your question that I also had at the time.
Next class I learned how to kick an attacker in the knee to throw them off, then told to run.
Classes have been downhill a bit since, but my discount first months fee was earned pretty well in those two first classes, now I think about it.
I never leave home without my stun gun either (legal in my area) I think to myself I would probably be too shaken to release all the saftey steps to actually use it, in process of potential attack, give up and use my newbie TKD moves instead. Heck who knows how a person would react, in goodness forbid, they get attacked. Use what ever you can to defend yourself. Even if its something you saw in a movie. If it works, it worked.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Hi everyone

I took my first TKD ITF lesson yesterday, I really enjoyed it.

I do have however have some concerns, I'm always reading how TKD is simply too impractical for the street as a defense art and it's one of the arts to be avoided along with Aikido.

Could someone give me some clarity on this?

The place I just joined has the TKD and also has Street awareness incorporated in to the sessions.

My initial thought was to take TKD and also do either JUDO/JJJ along side with it.

My main goal is to be able to protect my family if a dangerous situation were to occur.

Boils down to what your specific goals are in training. If it's for sport, competition, socialization etc then the bulk of available TKD is sufficient. If SD is your goal then you'll need to seek out (unless you've already found it at your current school) a TKD school that focuses on SD. And I mean real SD and not a sport-TKD school that just pays lip service to SD or has a SD sign above the trophy case. SD is it's own unique animal and the training/teaching methodology is quite different from the typical sport focuses arts.

Judo is sport. It was designed to be sport. According to Pat 'Dermott' O'Neill who was in his era the highest ranked non-Japanese Judo player in the world...Judo is useless unless the enemy is wearing a Gi.

As far as Japanese Ju Jutsu or any other martial art for that matter it is the same as the TKD statement I made above. What is the focus of the school in question? And more importantly, what is the level of experience of the instructor? An instructor that is a sports champion isn't necessarily a good teacher of SD in the same vein as an instructor of good, solid SD is not necessarily a good teacher for competitions.

So in short, base your questions on what experience your instructor has, the focus of the school and the methodology of instruction.

Qualifications of self-defense?

Self-defense training methodology

Martial Warrior - Self-defense

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Boils down to what your specific goals are in training. If it's for sport, competition, socialization etc then the bulk of available TKD is sufficient. If SD is your goal then you'll need to seek out (unless you've already found it at your current school) a TKD school that focuses on SD. And I mean real SD and not a sport-TKD school that just pays lip service to SD or has a SD sign above the trophy case. SD is it's own unique animal and the training/teaching methodology is quite different from the typical sport focuses arts.

Judo is sport. It was designed to be sport. According to Pat 'Dermott' O'Neill who was in his era the highest ranked non-Japanese Judo player in the world...Judo is useless unless the enemy is wearing a Gi.

As far as Japanese Ju Jutsu or any other martial art for that matter it is the same as the TKD statement I made above. What is the focus of the school in question? And more importantly, what is the level of experience of the instructor? An instructor that is a sports champion isn't necessarily a good teacher of SD in the same vein as an instructor of good, solid SD is not necessarily a good teacher for competitions.

So in short, base your questions on what experience your instructor has, the focus of the school and the methodology of instruction.

Qualifications of self-defense?

Self-defense training methodology

Martial Warrior - Self-defense

I can agree with everything except the O'Neill quote. Most of Judo is easily adapted to no-gi, some of it requires no adaptation, and most of the groundwork in traditional Judo works quite well without a gi.

 

[drop bear]

I can agree with everything except the O'Neill quote. Most of Judo is easily adapted to no-gi, some of it requires no adaptation, and most of the groundwork in traditional Judo works quite well without a gi.

I don't like how people tout that the focus is different. You set an objective. Then test your gear to see if your system works to fulfill that.

This is how TKD basically works.

And let's break this down to one unlikely move. The tornado kick.

(Quick side note here the criteria of self defence basically fits the criteria of assault. Motive ability delivery system. But that is another thing)

Now the tornado kick as much as it shouldn't work, knocks people out. The reason we know this is because we can see it.

Now we don't have to make up a bunch of logic to support this. You are either knocking fools out with it or you are not.

It won't mystically work or fail because you are in a street or a ring. The same circumstances that make the technique work. Make the technique work everywhere.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

According to Pat 'Dermott' O'Neill who was in his era the highest ranked non-Japanese Judo player in the world...Judo is useless unless the enemy is wearing a Gi.

Masahiko Kimura, Ronda Rousey, Karo Parisyan, Dong Hyun Kim, Fedor Emelianenko, Rick Hawn and others would beg to disagree.

 

[drop bear]

Masahiko Kimura, Ronda Rousey, Karo Parisyan, Dong Hyun Kim, Fedor Emelianenko, Rick Hawn and others would beg to disagree.

Plus the Japanese parliament are a bit keen for judo from time to time as well.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Plus the Japanese parliament are a bit keen for judo from time to time as well.

They're wearing suits. Close enough to a gi.

 

[DaveB]

I don't like how people tout that the focus is different. You set an objective. Then test your gear to see if your system works to fulfill that.

This is how TKD basically works.

And let's break this down to one unlikely move. The tornado kick.

(Quick side note here the criteria of self defence basically fits the criteria of assault. Motive ability delivery system. But that is another thing)

Now the tornado kick as much as it shouldn't work, knocks people out. The reason we know this is because we can see it.

Now we don't have to make up a bunch of logic to support this. You are either knocking fools out with it or you are not.

It won't mystically work or fail because you are in a street or a ring. The same circumstances that make the technique work. Make the technique work everywhere.

This is absolutely true, but the issues SD focus deals with are the other stuff: is the ground suitable for a tornado kick?
How can I make distance on this guy who is getting in my face since he's not the same weight class and a shove may not cut it?
If I shove him first will there be legal ramifications?
What if he catches my kick which is illegal under our rules?
etc etc etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't like how people tout that the focus is different. You set an objective. Then test your gear to see if your system works to fulfill that.

This is how TKD basically works.

And let's break this down to one unlikely move. The tornado kick.

(Quick side note here the criteria of self defence basically fits the criteria of assault. Motive ability delivery system. But that is another thing)

Now the tornado kick as much as it shouldn't work, knocks people out. The reason we know this is because we can see it.

Now we don't have to make up a bunch of logic to support this. You are either knocking fools out with it or you are not.

It won't mystically work or fail because you are in a street or a ring. The same circumstances that make the technique work. Make the technique work everywhere.

I think O’Neill was talking about the way competition Judo trains, which depends heavily on the go as a tool (both your opponent’s and your own). I just don’t think it’s all that hard to make the shift in the training.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I can agree with everything except the O'Neill quote. Most of Judo is easily adapted to no-gi, some of it requires no adaptation, and most of the groundwork in traditional Judo works quite well without a gi.

Perhaps today. O'Neill was in the WWII era so his quote needs to be taken in context.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Masahiko Kimura, Ronda Rousey, Karo Parisyan, Dong Hyun Kim, Fedor Emelianenko, Rick Hawn and others would beg to disagree.

Again, needs to be taken into context of the era in which O'Neill lived. There is a reason that the highest ranked non-Japanese Judoka dismissed Judo as viable for a combative. Can Judo be morphed so that some of it is useful for SD? Sure. But SD isn't the original purpose/goal/methodology of Judo. Now one can reverse engineer Judo back to AJJ which can be quite useful for SD providing that's what it's geared towards.

 

[drop bear]

They're wearing suits. Close enough to a gi.

That is why they are wearing suits. Just in case someone needs to get judoed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Perhaps today. O'Neill was in the WWII era so his quote needs to be taken in context.

I think my training was more similar to the WWII era than what goes on in many dojos today (often less focus on the ground work today than I experienced). My instructor was of that era (and pretty traditional), and we used the gi heavily in throws, locks, and chokes. But all that was easy to translate to NOT grabbing the gi so often.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Again, needs to be taken into context of the era in which O'Neill lived. There is a reason that the highest ranked non-Japanese Judoka dismissed Judo as viable for a combative. Can Judo be morphed so that some of it is useful for SD? Sure. But SD isn't the original purpose/goal/methodology of Judo. Now one can reverse engineer Judo back to AJJ which can be quite useful for SD providing that's what it's geared towards.

Kodokan Judo had (has?) a self-defense set as part of the curriculum. And most of the core throws and locks are what they were decades ago (if a bit progressed). I suspect he was referring to the way it was taught/trained, rather than the capacity. That’s the only way it makes sense to me.

 

[drop bear]

This is absolutely true, but the issues SD focus deals with are the other stuff: is the ground suitable for a tornado kick?
How can I make distance on this guy who is getting in my face since he's not the same weight class and a shove may not cut it?
If I shove him first will there be legal ramifications?
What if he catches my kick which is illegal under our rules?
etc etc etc.

See the only difference is really the last one. And even that changes via rule sets. So they can catch in ours if they want.

All these other factors occur everywhere.

You can't throw a tornado kick anywhere if you slip over or don't have the space.

If you can't push a guy backwards. You can't push him backwards.

These mechanics just occur. Suggesting there are these impossible street physics just isn't real.

They generate like a superstition. And quite often have as much validity.