TKD and Hapkido Are Two Different Faces to the Same Coin

[dancingalone]

True or False? I know there's a certain amount of overlap based on who your teacher is and what lineal connections they might have. And then there's the argument that TKD like all MAs is a living creature, free to add on techniques and ideas as warranted.

Where is the line drawn or should there even be a line at all? How do you feel about the above premise as a TKDist? And if you're a hapkido person, are you aghast at the thread title at all?

 

[Twin Fist]

false,

hapkido is TKD combined with aikido

 

[bluekey88]

False and false. Hapkido, Aikido's ugly cousin, is essentially Koreanized daito-ryu aikijujutsu. While some schools will borrow one from the other, they are distinct arts with unique histories and differing philosphical and tactical underpinnings.

Peace,
Erik

 

[dortiz]

"false,

hapkido is TKD combined with aikido"

Please dear gosh put smiley faces after comments like that.

 

[d1jinx]

My first TKD school taught us throws and take downs. It was just part of TKD to me and part of what we learned and were tested on. We had different throws and takedowns for each belt starting at Blue belt. Later I found out it was Hapkido. Funny, looking back, I dont think TKD would have been the same without it. I think it completes TKD. I learned that way, and thats how i teach.

I have known many Korean Masters and almost all of them knew Hapkido as well, It seems that somewhere along the line, someone found out they could seperate the 2 and charge more. But thats just my opnion and I really dont know.

Like I said, I learned both together and Thats how I teach...

 

[Hawke]

From my personal experience I see TKD and Hapkido as separate. They do blend well together.

Most of the TKD studios I have gone or visited were mainly WTF or ITF. But this one time when visiting a friend at a park I saw an unusual style of TKD. I asked what style of TKD and they replied old school combat TKD.

 

[goingd]

Aikido's "ugly" cousin? Ouch!

To me, all martial arts break down to be identical. Once the larger outward details are stripped away their is just a single 'martial arts' idea. In the end I believe, all things are relative. A lot of Taekwondoists will throw in Hapkido, but for me, the techniques are interchangeable when practiced outside an exactness (a pattern for example).

 

[bluekey88]

Aikido's "ugly" cousin? Ouch!

To me, all martial arts break down to be identical. Once the larger outward details are stripped away their is just a single 'martial arts' idea. In the end I believe, all things are relative. A lot of Taekwondoists will throw in Hapkido, but for me, the techniques are interchangeable when practiced outside an exactness (a pattern for example).

Yeah, I picked that quote up from a hapkido practitioner a few years back. I've always said the style thing is pretty much an illusion. At advanced levels, most styles really start looking more and more alike.

Peace,
Erik

 

[dancingalone]

The ugly cousin comment seems oddly appropriate. Generalizing, to me the aikido versions of the techniques are more aesthetically pleasing since they tend to be bigger with 'prettier' footwork. I'd say the hapkido versions are intentionally more painful though, and there's more attention focused on the throws where uke cannot breakfall out of.

I seen more than one hapkidoist claim hapkido actually has more kick variations than TKD does. Could be true. Sin moo hapkido has 25 kicks that they classify as belonging to the basic level. I wonder how many more they do.

 

[bluekey88]

Hard to say about kicks (don't know enough about HKD to say)...although it sounds like HKD is following with the Korean penchant for naming every variation of a kick as a seperate kick (so a low roundhouse, high roundhouse and front leg roundhouse are three different kicks instead of three variations off the same kick). Personally, I tend not to go for that (depsite my TKD background), but it's a minor quibble. There are a few basic kicks and you need ot be able to do them fronbt leg, back leg, at all angles, with/without jump and with/without spin.

Peace,
Erik

 

[dancingalone]

Hard to say about kicks (don't know enough about HKD to say)...although it sounds like HKD is following with the Korean penchant for naming every variation of a kick as a seperate kick (so a low roundhouse, high roundhouse and front leg roundhouse are three different kicks instead of three variations off the same kick). Personally, I tend not to go for that (depsite my TKD background), but it's a minor quibble. There are a few basic kicks and you need ot be able to do them fronbt leg, back leg, at all angles, with/without jump and with/without spin.

It doesn't seem like the Sin Moo style follows that practice though. To my eye, the 25 kicks are distinct, although of course some kicks are closer to each other.

[yt]RBRw3-_yMTE[/yt]

 

[bluekey88]

It doesn't seem like the Sin Moo style follows that practice though. To my eye, the 25 kicks are distinct, although of course some kicks are closer to each other.

[yt]RBRw3-_yMTE[/yt]

It's semantics, but I didn't see 25 distinct kicks....I saw variations of the front kick, side kick, roundhouse kick, and axe/crescent kick, hook kick and a couple of knee strikes. In the end, the nomenclature/terminology is less important than the practitioner's ability to hit the intended target with the proper technique.

Peace,
Erik

 

[arnisador]

TKD comes from Karate; HKD comes from Jujutsu. Most HKD orgs. later added some stuff from TKD.

 

[dancingalone]

To me, all martial arts break down to be identical. Once the larger outward details are stripped away their is just a single 'martial arts' idea.

I think there's a danger of being erroneous when taking this line of thinking too far. Different striking systems for example create force through emphasizing different physical actions. Some use whole body movement, some use snap, some use momentum and hip or waist turn, some combine attributes of the above and then add speed to the equation. Given this diversity, it's no surprise that even within the karate family, there's clear affinities within each style for performing kata a certain way with the resultant form applications. And that's just within karate, generally considered a hard, physical style. Consider the internal arts like tai chi chuan or baquazhang. Consider those arts that mix hard and soft like hapkido.

Yes, all martial arts hopefully end up at the same spot, i.e. giving one the ability to defend oneself. However, the path taught by each martial art can be distinctly different and I believe certain systems or styles may suit a particular body type or physical characteristic best.

 

[Hawke]

The 25 basic kicks of HKD reminds me of the angles of attack in FMA.

Some systems have 12.

Others have 64...and more.

I agree with the semantics that they are variations and to different targets.

 

[goingd]

I think there's a danger of being erroneous when taking this line of thinking too far. Different striking systems for example create force through emphasizing different physical actions. Some use whole body movement, some use snap, some use momentum and hip or waist turn, some combine attributes of the above and then add speed to the equation. Given this diversity, it's no surprise that even within the karate family, there's clear affinities within each style for performing kata a certain way with the resultant form applications. And that's just within karate, generally considered a hard, physical style. Consider the internal arts like tai chi chuan or baquazhang. Consider those arts that mix hard and soft like hapkido.

Yes, all martial arts hopefully end up at the same spot, i.e. giving one the ability to defend oneself. However, the path taught by each martial art can be distinctly different and I believe certain systems or styles may suit a particular body type or physical characteristic best.

Absolutely. All of these differences - hard, soft, snap, turn, speed, internal or not - that are learned along the path of the martial arts are the "outward" differences I am talking about. They are the major details. Everyone has their preferences to learn by, but in the end, movement is just movement.

 

[Earl Weiss]

From my personal experience I see TKD and Hapkido as separate. They do blend well together.

Most of the TKD studios I have gone or visited were mainly WTF or ITF. But this one time when visiting a friend at a park I saw an unusual style of TKD. I asked what style of TKD and they replied old school combat TKD.

Either their reply was based in their ignorance by failing to be more specific, or based upon what they percieved as your ignorance (Notice I said percieved) and their lack of desire to educate you.

 

[dancingalone]

Absolutely. All of these differences - hard, soft, snap, turn, speed, internal or not - that are learned along the path of the martial arts are the "outward" differences I am talking about. They are the major details. Everyone has their preferences to learn by, but in the end, movement is just movement.

OK. When you reach that big picture of a perspective, I imagine there's not much to discuss then.

 

[Kwan Jang]

When I was coming up back in the '70's, we were taught TKD, Hapkido and Yudo all as part of our curriculum, but it was generally called TKD as an umbrella term. During that time, my instructors made a point of distinguishing what we did in our curriculum from "sport TKD" (even though my instructor was a national champion and a medalist at the WTF world championships). Our schools and their curriculums have evolved more towads MMA since then, but I really prefer what we did back then to the direction that I have seen the majority of TKD schools take today.

 

[goingd]

OK. When you reach that big picture of a perspective, I imagine there's not much to discuss then.

Nope. ^~^