TKD and Christianity

[Jake]

Hi Gang, does TKD have any eastern religion attached to it. I have been looking into different Traditional Martial Arts, and the instructor I have been talking with, does have a lot of eastern religion teachings in his Chinese style of martial art, as well as internal development and healing. From what I have seen so far, TKD seems non-religious, it appears to promote clean ethics, but not religion. thanks in advance for any help.

 

[granfire]

I think you can't grasp Eastern Martial Arts if you don't at least partially spend some time examine the philosophy (I prefer that over religion) that it sprung from.

TKD has grown to be very international, but it seems to me, as soon as a style moves away from it's philosophical roots it turns more into a sport than into an Art.

having said that, there is in many styles of TKD no reference to religion, though some schools practice meditation.

However, exposure to different cultural aspects makes us grow as a person. I do not see where Eastern religion and Christianity are at odds or exclude each other. One can still be one or the other while adopting a few valuable things from the other!

 

[Ninjamom]

TKD has as much or as little religious content as the individual instructor chooses to injest into it. Check with your prospective instructor. Visit a few classes. Talk to other students.

In most cases, I don't think you'll have any problem with philosophical or religious overtones contrary to Christianity within TKD.

 

[exile]

I think you can't grasp Eastern Martial Arts if you don't at least partially spend some time examine the philosophy (I prefer that over religion) that it sprung from.

TKD has grown to be very international, but it seems to me, as soon as a style moves away from it's philosophical roots it turns more into a sport than into an Art.

having said that, there is in many styles of TKD no reference to religion, though some schools practice meditation.

However, exposure to different cultural aspects makes us grow as a person. I do not see where Eastern religion and Christianity are at odds or exclude each other. One can still be one or the other while adopting a few valuable things from the other!

The history of the TMAs suggests that they were born of the need to damage potential attackers for purposes of self preservation. So far as I can tell, the karate that Bushi Matsumura, Chotoko Kyan and Choki Motobu practiced was hard, pitliless and had no philosophical content at all. My guess is, you don't need to understand the Buddhism of the 18th and 19th century Okinawan countryside to get very good at karate any more than you need to be a devout Catholic to become proficient at 16th century Neapolitan rapier fencing methods, another kind of martial art, where the primary intent of training was to kill your opponent as quickly as possible.

The mystification of the martial arts in 20th century marketing has, I believe, left us in the West with a foggy haze of spiritual yearning surrounding what are nothing more or less than sound, effective, very nasty and brutal fighting techniques. But the skills necessary to trap a grabbing attacker and force his head lower to put him in position where you can use a so-called 'down block' to rupture his windpipe have little to do with spirituality, so far as I can see.

 

[Brian King]

Jake wrote:

“Hi Gang, does TKD have any eastern religion attached to it. I have been looking into different Traditional Martial Arts, and the instructor I have been talking with, does have a lot of eastern religion teachings in his Chinese style of martial art, as well as internal development and healing. From what I have seen so far, TKD seems non-religious, it appears to promote clean ethics, but not religion. thanks in advance for any help.”

And then titled the subject

“TKD and Christianity”

I’m confused Jake
Not sure what Christianity has to do with the body of your post or the question you seem to be asking in that body thus “does TKD have any eastern religion attached to it”. Are you referring to Eastern Orthodoxy when you are asking about eastern religion or are you asking specifically about one of the many Asian originating Religions? If the later why include Christianity in the title, it leaves the thread open for confusion and interpretation in my opinion.

Regards and welcome to the forum
Brian King

 

[Jake]

Good point Brian, I am new to posting and wasn't thinking when I wrote the title. I am a Christian guy, want to stay away from eastern religion, so I am asking if it is a part of TKD, I should of left 'Christianity' out of the title. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[arnisador]

Most TKD schools will teach some philosophy but not religion. Some religious instructors will of course teach differently. You're unlikely to have trouble but you'll need to check out the school!

Of course, it may depend on your precise beliefs:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732

 

[Laurentkd]

Most TKD schools will teach some philosophy but not religion. Some religious instructors will of course teach differently. You're unlikely to have trouble but you'll need to check out the school!

Of course, it may depend on your precise beliefs:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=732

I think this is the big point. Philosophy is not the same as religion. There are huge parts of eastern philosophy that dove tail right into the Christian religion (emptying of self, showing respect/putting others first, moderation in all things, yielding to be strong, just to name a few). And don't forget, Christianity really is an "eastern" religion, so don't be scared off just because of a label.
Of course, as others have said, it is really all about the instructor and what you are comfortable with. Talk to him/her about what is taught and do what is best for you.

 

[Brian King]

As others have said Jake it is often up to the instructor and the school. You are going to be spending a lot of time training and around those that you train with. You will need to be comfortable with not only the training but the philosophy of both the art and the instructor teaching the art.

I do not know much about TKD so cannot advise about that. I do know that there are more choices than ever now as far as types of training available. Take you time and find the art and the instructor that fits you and fits you perfectly. No instructor worth their salt will mind you asking questions or taking your business somewhere else that better gives you what you are seeking. Instructors make an investment in students of time and energy and want the best fit as well. When you find that fit it allows the training to reach its true potential. Stick to your convections and you will find the art and instructor and training that God means for you to find.

One option perhaps is to ask around at your church and see what arts others are taking. Perhaps there is a member of your church that has a lot of prior training and might be open to forming a study group at the church. I have heard of a bunch of Systema study groups at various churches as an example.

Good luck in your search Jake and as you are already doing communication is key
Warmest Regards
Brian King

 

[dancingalone]

Hi Gang, does TKD have any eastern religion attached to it. I have been looking into different Traditional Martial Arts, and the instructor I have been talking with, does have a lot of eastern religion teachings in his Chinese style of martial art, as well as internal development and healing. From what I have seen so far, TKD seems non-religious, it appears to promote clean ethics, but not religion. thanks in advance for any help.

There are any number of TKD teachers who add a Christian slant to the art if that is your desire. Google for "Karate for Christ" and then check on their site to see if there is an affiliated instructor in your area.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I've been under three Korean Grandmasters. Two were atheist (but one converted to Catholic on his death bed), and I'm not sure of the third one.

I have seen no influence of any particular religion in TKD. Difference between right and wrong, yes, but no religion.

Now I'm a Catholic. And I have found many a decent person in every religion I've bumped into (and atheist for that matter.) I've also found awful people in every religion as well as atheist.

But when one is dieing, there is truth in the statement, "There ain't no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole".

Deaf

 

[kaizasosei]

there were some issues in the news in asia recently. where china became slightly enraged by the claims that korea was the origin of the ijing, fengshui and even chinese writing. -

japan very subtley joined in the bashing noting how korea has no qualms about adopting the japanese sword or judo without recognizing or valuing the (true?!) origins..

i dont remember the details but then china made a list of most disliked countries, and japan was not at the top but i believe korea and indonesia.

btw, was jesus korean???

j

 

[FearlessFreep]

I'm a Christian you practices TKD (wtih some minoring in Hapkido and some others) and I've never and I've occasionally seen some bleed over of philosophical concepts into mechanical application (push/pull... positive/negative force express as ying/yang) but nothing really overt or bothersome (to me).

I've always appreciated that TKD is a very mechanical, practical art. TKD works because of physics and bio-mechanics and should be of affront to nobody's spiritual sensibilities.

Individual teacher interpretation and application may vary

 

[exile]

I
I've always appreciated that TKD is a very mechanical, practical art. TKD works because of physics and bio-mechanics and should be of affront to nobody's spiritual sensibilities.

Yes, yes, yes. It's long past time that we dropped the Karate Kid `ancient Asian wisdom' mystification of the fighting systems people used out of necessity, because there weren't LEOs around to protect them.

 

[IcemanSK]

There are Christians that practice their faith & every MA from Kung Fu, Aikido, to BJJ & TKD. If after talking to an instructor, you are not comfortable training under them (for whatever reason) I'd say look elsewhere. I can honestly say that there are some of my fellow Christians that I would choose not to train under. There is not (nor should there be) any "automatic" in who someone "should" train with.

I wish you all the best in your search for a school that you are comfortable with.:asian:

 

[Deaf Smith]

Yes, yes, yes. It's long past time that we dropped the Karate Kid `ancient Asian wisdom' mystification of the fighting systems people used out of necessity, because there weren't LEOs around to protect them.

Exile, I hated that show, 'The Karate Kid'. And I thought the other guy in the last tourmanmet in the show cleaned the floor with him. I'm of the school,"The race does not necessarily go to the strongest or fastest, but that's the way to bet".

I see such things as meditation and healing as being a part of the martial arts and how to clear ones mind to concentrate, but religion itself? No. I hope the person has already found their God before joining any martial art, least they find a cult instead.

Deaf

 

[exile]

Exile, I hated that show, 'The Karate Kid'. And I thought the other guy in the last tourmanmet in the show cleaned the floor with him. I'm of the school,"The race does not necessarily go to the strongest or fastest, but that's the way to bet".

I'm with you on that, DS.

I see such things as meditation and healing as being a part of the martial arts and how to clear ones mind to concentrate, but religion itself? No.

Exactly. I used to be an alpine ski racer, and we did meditation exercises... for visualization of the course, for discharging distracting or self-defeating thoughts, for calmness and breathing control. But there was no actual 'cosmology' involved, nothing that involved questions of the kind that the OP has been raising. I think of these things as kind of the psychological/emotional analogue of stretching... musicians do this before performances, calligraphers do the same thing when they start work on an important piece of writing... it's just common sense to give yourself the maximum focus and clarity. But religion? As you say, no.

hope the person has already found their God before joining any martial art, lest they find a cult instead.

Deaf

Yes again. One of the problems we as Westerners face is that we don't really understand the cultural context in which the combat arts, and combat itself, are located in the Asian societies where they originated. You can't understand another culture without living in it for decades, and even then, it's kind of like the difference between your own first language and the French or Russian you learn in high school or university: totally different kinds of knowledge. Or another way I think of it: you can't share someone else's nostalgia. The places from their childhood that have certain kinds of intense significance for them are not going to have anything like the same often inexpressible meaning for you, and vice versa. We are who we are, our own cultures play a significant part in defining us, and it's just not possible to borrow bits and pieces of other people's culture that we almost certainly do not really understand.

People who go looking in other cultures to fill in gaps they perceive in their own are very, very vulnerable to the cult-trap you refer to.

 

[FearlessFreep]

you can't share someone else's nostalgia.

I worthy enough thought to be called out...

 

[igillman]

One of our instructors is a 5th Dan and is also a Christian Preacher so he doesn't seem to mind. To echo some of the things that have already been said, I have not seen or heard any religion being pushed in TKD. Yes we do sit quietly for a few minutes after a 2 minute break. They call it meditation, I call it time to get my breath back.

Now for my 2 cents...
There is no such thing as "forbidden knowledge" and I would take a close look at anyone or anything that tells you not to learn something. Knowledge never killed anyone, it is what you do, not know, that causes all the problems. Learn about other religions and other cultures, it will help you understand your own a whole lot better. You will get a new appreciation for people, cultures and lives when you can understand how they think and what they believe.

Do not be afraid to learn, to seek out and to find. Do not build up artificial walls beyond which you will not go, they will only imprison you in the most inpenetrable prison you can make, your mind.

Last words...
Sit back, relax and enjoy Tae Kwon Do for what it is, a martial art full of high, spinning and jumping kicks. A great workout, a wonderful adventure and a new group of people to meet.

You have nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

[rchurch]

Exactly, igillman. Religion and martial arts do not have to go hand in hand. That's like asking, "If I buy a Japanese car, do I have to join their religion, too?"

Keep an open mind. There is nothing wrong with learning something new, and meditation, herbal medicines, etc. aren't religion based. It's all a part of being human, and learning. That's all. You can be a Christian and lots of other things at the same time.