Thrusting Salute

[MJS]

Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.


1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick.

2. Step your right foot to 4:30 into a left neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right inward downward block (palm up) followed by a left downward block to your attacker's right leg.

3. Immediately execute a right step-through front kick to your attacker's groin as your left hand raises as a check.

4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right palm strike to your attacker's chin.

5. Cross out towards 4:30.


Another technique for discussion. Variations, differences..lets here 'em folks! :ultracool

Mike

 

[HKphooey]

Mike,

I no longer use the initial right inward downward block. Not sure if it is becasue of my height, but it used to bring my head to close to the opponent (the kick is too low on me). I put my right hand in a guard positon in case (universal block) of a right or left punch. The rest is the same.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.


1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick.

2. Step your right foot to 4:30 into a left neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right inward downward block (palm up) followed by a left downward block to your attacker's right leg.

3. Immediately execute a right step-through front kick to your attacker's groin as your left hand raises as a check.

4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right palm strike to your attacker's chin.

5. Cross out towards 4:30.


Another technique for discussion. Variations, differences..lets here 'em folks! :ultracool

Mike

1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much. It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right.

2) left hand is taught to specifically circle from inside out when raising as a check to open the centerline if a right hand comes in after the kick.

Opponent Counter#1 - Opponent follows up with the right hand either in a linear fashion or as a hook. The left hand addresses the punch from the inside, proceed as planned

Opponent Counter#2 - Opponent follows up with a left linear punch. Our left picks up their left on the outside and the heel palm does a glancing check into the palm(like Glancing Spear but off of the arm instead of the shoulder). Follow up with any right leg forward technique for outside of the left hand. I prefer to use Gripping Talon as we are inside the left leg.

Opponent Counter#3 - Opponent throws a circular left. Our left brushes their left over our right shoulder while we still deliver the palm heel (our right shoulder will guard our head like a boxer throwing a right jab). Retreact the right hand into a high check while delivering a left outward handsword to the neck. Follow up with moves such as snapping Twig, Shielding Hammer, Five Swords, etc.

Opponent Counter #4 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects the heel palm over their left shoulder with their right hand. Blast a left reverse punch to the face (with glancing check) and continue with five swords from the uppercut

Opponent Counter#5 - opponent checks the kick down and uses their right to deflect our palm over their right shoulder. Convert the right palm to a right inward elbow, move the left foot up the circle and proceed with the gift of destruction extension or swinging pendulum or unfurling crane, etc.

Opponent Counter#6 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects the palm over their right shoulder with the left hand. Execute a rolling trapping right back knuckle with our left hand trapping their left arm down like in the motion of raining claw, unfurling crane or the third set in Long 2. follow up with any move outside the left where we have a hold of/check on their left arm such as gripping talon or a modified circling destruction since we are inside their left leg.

Opponent counter#7 - opponent checks the kick down and deflects our palm over thier left shoulder with the left hand. Circle the right hand and execute a chopping hammer to the opponent's floating ribs (as in striking set#1 or Twirling hammers. Followed up with a left outward handsword to the neck on a quarter beat as their head crumps in and the right hand rechambers to the right hip. BLAST them with five swords starting with the uppercut.

 

[JamesB]

ok you asked for it!!

some minor comments inline with your bullet-points:

Thrusting Salute- Right Front Kick.

1. An attacker from 12 o'clock comes at you with a right front step-through kick.

2. Step your right foot to 4:30 into a left neutral bow facing 10:30 as you execute a right inward downward block (palm up) followed by a left downward block to your attacker's right leg.

this is a very personal thing and results from how I learn new material, but I've always found this type of description rather ambiguous and therefore difficult for me to understand. When, and from what stance, do you execute the first 'inward-downward' block? Do you execute both blocks from neutral? Because I'm thinking the inside-downward block doesn't have much 'reach' when executed from neutral this way.

3. Immediately execute a right step-through front kick to your attacker's groin as your left hand raises as a check.

what are you checking with your left hand? Could we reasonably expect that after a kick to the groin, the attacker's legs would be brought sharply together, and his hands moved down to protect the groin?

I've been taught slightly differently, although the general theme of the technique is the same.

1. Pivot hips and step directly back to 5 O'clock into a left forward-bow, with a right inside-downward palm-up block, and a left slap-check to the right shoulder. Forward bow provides more 'reach' here for this type of block. The block now becomes a major move in the technique, and is very quick to execute as the hands (by your sides) are ideally placed to start with.

2. Pivot to neutral with a left downward-block. Most likely the block may not connect, as the attacker's leg has already been hit wide in step#1. Immediately rebound the blocking arm and extend to a palm-heel. I think of this last move as a depth-check.

3. Attacker has been blocked wide, his width+depth cancelled. Pivot to forward-bow and execute a right front snap-kick to the groin area.

4. Plant, pivot to neutral and execute a right palm-heel, with a left slap-check to the right shoulder.

Major differences seem to me are:

1. Specific forward-bow transitions (notably in step#1).
2. No 'floating/positional' checks. Instead the 'spare' hand is used as a 'slap-check' (shoulder BAM).

I LOVE this technique!!!

-james

 

[teej]

Mike,

I no longer use the initial right inward downward block. Not sure if it is becasue of my height, but it used to bring my head to close to the opponent (the kick is too low on me). I put my right hand in a guard positon in case (universal block) of a right or left punch. The rest is the same.

If you are tall and bending to reach for a kick you are breaking your waist forward and you do not want to do that. If the kick is too low it is either not a threat or you would have to do something else. This technique is for a committed front thrust kick which is atleast to belt level or higher. If the kick is lower, this is not the technique for that attack. Make sure attacking students are kicking at least to groining level or higher.

I teach the right inside downward as a "what if" block. "What if" the kick is quicker than I and it starts to get inside before the left outside downward block connects? The right block is a pick up block. This block DOES NOT have to make contact. The left outside downward block does, so do not bend trying to reach with the right inside downward block.

quote from kenpojujuistu3 "1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much. It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right."

The attacker shouldn't get that close unless you are waiting there trying to make contact with right block. Your initial step back is to create distance. You should not be too close. Like I mentioned, the right block does not have to make contact. One of the reasons it is there is "just in case".

Teej

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

quote from kenpojujuistu3 "1) I teach the initial right down block to drill the double factor but don't actually use it much. It's range is short and allows the kick (and therefore the attacker) get too close if I actually make contact with the right."

The attacker shouldn't get that close unless you are waiting there trying to make contact with right block. Your initial step back is to create distance. You should not be too close. Like I mentioned, the right block does not have to make contact. One of the reasons it is there is "just in case".

Teej

Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much. Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.

 

[HKphooey]

Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much. Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.

Lol!!!!

That is why I do not use it.

Teej,

For me I am more concerned with their other weapons (their hands). Do my "just in case" is more for the possible punches. The stepping back is enough for me to protect my groin. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[teej]

Exactly my point, which is why it doesn't get used much or should I say doesn't make contact much. Also Phooey is like 9 foot 10 or something (LOL) so a groin level height for him is over most of our heads some I'm told.

lol Well if he is that tall and is concerned with their hands, can hands reach him? I hope he also considers possible head butts to his groin. Do you change your inward elbow to an inward overhead elbow? [this is a joke for those of you not reading the entire thread.]

Teej

 

[HKphooey]

:rofl:...

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

lol Well if he is that tall and is concerned with their hands, can hands reach him? I hope he also considers possible head butts to his groin. Do you change your inward elbow to an inward overhead elbow? [this is a joke for those of you not reading the entire thread.]

Teej

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roflmao: :rofl:

 

[Arizona Angel]

I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.

 

[MattJ]

I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.

?????

Behind the attacker? Either they are REALLY committing to the attack, or perhaps you are going more too far to the side as opposed to back and to the side.

Ideally, your front kick to the groin should be hitting slightly before their kicking foot lands on the ground. Perhaps it is a timing issue.

 

[DavidCC]

This is one of the few techniques I learned under Doc Chapel. So I have a yellow belt's understanding of it for what that is worth

Out of all the SL4 techs I've seen discussed, this one seems to be the most similar to the "regular" kenpo version. Some differences I notice are:

The initial footwork is to step the right foot to 4:30, into a forward bow facing 1030. This turns the hips counterclockwise and allows the right hand palm-up block to have more range and be much more powerful. the initial block is delivered with the left BAM at the right shoulder, the left hand then ricochets into the second downard block.

After the left blocks, the SL4 technique does someting different. The left hand is raised up, arm straight, horizontal, palm down fist, stuck right into their face at 1030. From working this at my school I think this is a very effective depth check! It is a bit weird but it has a definite effect.

As you deliver the kick to the groin the right hand braces behind the left fist, as you bend the left elbow, bringing the fist towards you, staying horizontal and palm down. Sortof like the salute (but mirror image). The right hand is open, fingers up, the palm braced agasint the thumb and index finger.

With the kick the weight moves forward behind it, and as you step down into a right (modified) forward bow, you strike to the chin with the right palm heel while pivoting into right neutral bow (and left BAM at right shoulder too). So you get body mass momentum and hip torque and counter-resistance all adding to the strike. LIGHTS OUT

 

[MJS]

ok you asked for it!!

some minor comments inline with your bullet-points:



this is a very personal thing and results from how I learn new material, but I've always found this type of description rather ambiguous and therefore difficult for me to understand. When, and from what stance, do you execute the first 'inward-downward' block? Do you execute both blocks from neutral? Because I'm thinking the inside-downward block doesn't have much 'reach' when executed from neutral this way.

Just for clarification: I took this breakdown of the technique from KT. This is not necessarily how I perform the technique. If we look at this link from Mr. Billings site, the technique is done without the inward-downward block.
http://www.kenpo-texas.com/techorng.html

I perform this tech. without that block, due to the fact that I don't want to risk the kick getting that close, just to do that block, when IMO, the left downward block should be good enough. To answer your question though, I'd say that if one was going to do the inward-downward, that it would start as you're stepping back from a neutral position.

what are you checking with your left hand? Could we reasonably expect that after a kick to the groin, the attacker's legs would be brought sharply together, and his hands moved down to protect the groin?

A possible punch.

I've been taught slightly differently, although the general theme of the technique is the same.

1. Pivot hips and step directly back to 5 O'clock into a left forward-bow, with a right inside-downward palm-up block, and a left slap-check to the right shoulder. Forward bow provides more 'reach' here for this type of block. The block now becomes a major move in the technique, and is very quick to execute as the hands (by your sides) are ideally placed to start with.

2. Pivot to neutral with a left downward-block. Most likely the block may not connect, as the attacker's leg has already been hit wide in step#1. Immediately rebound the blocking arm and extend to a palm-heel. I think of this last move as a depth-check.

3. Attacker has been blocked wide, his width+depth cancelled. Pivot to forward-bow and execute a right front snap-kick to the groin area.

4. Plant, pivot to neutral and execute a right palm-heel, with a left slap-check to the right shoulder.

Major differences seem to me are:

1. Specific forward-bow transitions (notably in step#1).
2. No 'floating/positional' checks. Instead the 'spare' hand is used as a 'slap-check' (shoulder BAM).

I LOVE this technique!!!

-james

 

[MJS]

I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.

I'm a bit confused by this. Not quite sure how you're ending up behind the attacker?

 

[JamesB]

Just for clarification: I took this breakdown of the technique from KT. This is not necessarily how I perform the technique. If we look at this link from Mr. Billings site, the technique is done without the inward-downward block.
http://www.kenpo-texas.com/techorng.html

I was pretty sure you were just copy+pasting from somewhere else but thanks for clarifying

I perform this tech. without that block, due to the fact that I don't want to risk the kick getting that close, just to do that block, when IMO, the left downward block should be good enough. To answer your question though, I'd say that if one was going to do the inward-downward, that it would start as you're stepping back from a neutral position.

I this is just a minor difference in our techniques - I've got a foward-bow as my first 'stance', so this makes the inward-downard-block viable. Stepping out directly to neutral means the emphasis is on the left-downward block instead. no biggie, I can see the benefit of both methods...

I then asked: 'what are you checking'? and you said:

A possible punch.

understood now - thanks!

james



[/quote]

 

[JamesB]

I have a hard time landing a good kick. I find myself too far behind the attacker and I step into a better position to execute the kick to groin. I am probabley doing something wrong. I will ask my instructor to review it with me again.

I'm a bit confused by this. Not quite sure how you're ending up behind the attacker?

I'd guess that Buckling-branch + Thrusting Salute are getting mixed up here? In that case I would say that being too far behind the attacker can be rectified by taking a simple step forwards with the left foot, elongating the base, before executing the kick..?

 

[JamesB]

This is one of the few techniques I learned under Doc Chapel. So I have a yellow belt's understanding of it for what that is worth

Out of all the SL4 techs I've seen discussed, this one seems to be the most similar to the "regular" kenpo version. Some differences I notice are:

The initial footwork is to step the right foot to 4:30, into a forward bow facing 1030. This turns the hips counterclockwise and allows the right hand palm-up block to have more range and be much more powerful. the initial block is delivered with the left BAM at the right shoulder, the left hand then ricochets into the second downard block.

After the left blocks, the SL4 technique does someting different. The left hand is raised up, arm straight, horizontal, palm down fist, stuck right into their face at 1030. From working this at my school I think this is a very effective depth check! It is a bit weird but it has a definite effect.

As you deliver the kick to the groin the right hand braces behind the left fist, as you bend the left elbow, bringing the fist towards you, staying horizontal and palm down. Sortof like the salute (but mirror image). The right hand is open, fingers up, the palm braced agasint the thumb and index finger.

With the kick the weight moves forward behind it, and as you step down into a right (modified) forward bow, you strike to the chin with the right palm heel while pivoting into right neutral bow (and left BAM at right shoulder too). So you get body mass momentum and hip torque and counter-resistance all adding to the strike. LIGHTS OUT

swwweeeeeeeeeeet!

 

[Arizona Angel]

I end up in the wrong place because I am just learning this stuff and I am shuffling my feet instead of firmly stepping into the correct bows. Give me a couple more weeks of practice and I will land it better and I will look back at this post wonder how in the world I can't land right. Same problem with Attacking Mace.

 

[MJS]

I was pretty sure you were just copy+pasting from somewhere else but thanks for clarifying

I this is just a minor difference in our techniques - I've got a foward-bow as my first 'stance', so this makes the inward-downard-block viable. Stepping out directly to neutral means the emphasis is on the left-downward block instead. no biggie, I can see the benefit of both methods...

Yes, I can see a difference using the forward bow.

Mike