TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
Hello I am just wondering to most filipino martial arts have 12 strikes in them if so what are they jw how much different they are from modern arnis.
thanks :asian: :asian:
thanks :asian: :asian:
The strikes in filipino martial arts
- Thread starter TallAdam85
- Start date
P
pknox
Guest
TallAdam85:
In my experience, this seems to vary based on the system - not every system has 12. I personally have not seen any with less than 12, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. There are some systems with more. While in some cases they are similar, the numbering of the strikes may also vary from system to system (i.e. my #6 might be your #12). I don't know why the variation exists - it could be that the systems each originated in different parts of the Phillippines, the founder had a reason to add (or subtract) more, a combination, or something else altogether.
In my experience, this seems to vary based on the system - not every system has 12. I personally have not seen any with less than 12, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. There are some systems with more. While in some cases they are similar, the numbering of the strikes may also vary from system to system (i.e. my #6 might be your #12). I don't know why the variation exists - it could be that the systems each originated in different parts of the Phillippines, the founder had a reason to add (or subtract) more, a combination, or something else altogether.
i have heard of systems that have 6 angles of attack and one that has 16 angles of attack.
My system starts with 5, then 12, then 24 (then there are subsystems with different angles and different numbers), but as mentioned already the numbers may be different but the angles are genrally the same as many other FMAs I have seen.
The number and patterns of angles varies alot system to system. For example, the Bolante style only has 1 angle of attack a downward verticle strike, #12 in Modern Arnis.
12 however seems to be the most common. A plausible explanation I have heard is because 12 is the number of apositle that Jesus has hence its a lucky/symbolic number.
However, some systems, particularly North systems (Luzon) do not use numbering systems instead name their strikes. For example the #12 is called the San Migeul strike in some systems, taken from the statue of St. Micheal.
Vince
aka Black Grass
12 however seems to be the most common. A plausible explanation I have heard is because 12 is the number of apositle that Jesus has hence its a lucky/symbolic number.
However, some systems, particularly North systems (Luzon) do not use numbering systems instead name their strikes. For example the #12 is called the San Migeul strike in some systems, taken from the statue of St. Micheal.
Vince
aka Black Grass
Hey,
There are some systems that call themselves "Cinco Teros" or something along that line. They only have five basic strikes (forehand diagonal downward, backhand diagonal downward, forehand horizontal, backhand horizontal, and center thrust). A lot of teachers agree that almost all strikes in a 12 strike or more striking system are variations of these 5 basics strikes.
There's a feeling in some circles that the distribution of 12 throughout modern FMA may have originally been due to some religious context, but most likely was proliferated by the popularity and influence of the Doce Pares club in Cebu.
Some systems I've come into contact with have 2,5,12,16 and 36 strikes in their pattern. In the Inosanto Blend some of the strikes didn't change angle so much as body position and intent.
There are some systems that call themselves "Cinco Teros" or something along that line. They only have five basic strikes (forehand diagonal downward, backhand diagonal downward, forehand horizontal, backhand horizontal, and center thrust). A lot of teachers agree that almost all strikes in a 12 strike or more striking system are variations of these 5 basics strikes.
There's a feeling in some circles that the distribution of 12 throughout modern FMA may have originally been due to some religious context, but most likely was proliferated by the popularity and influence of the Doce Pares club in Cebu.
Some systems I've come into contact with have 2,5,12,16 and 36 strikes in their pattern. In the Inosanto Blend some of the strikes didn't change angle so much as body position and intent.
I think I learned 9 strikeing angles originaly
It depends on the system the more basic a system s attacks the fewer angles
It depends on the system the more basic a system s attacks the fewer angles
I certainly think the 12 angles are often "padded" to get that high for numerological reasons.
M
Master of Blades
Guest
I have 24 Angles in my system 
S
sercuerdasfigther
Guest
for beginners and in certain situation 12 angles are a helpful tool, but with experience you can conceptualize the 12 back down to 5 base on methods of defense. i have been told some people can relate them all to the first two strikes, but my mentallity is not there yet.
P
pknox
Guest
True - and in some cases, 2 different strikes can really be distilled down to mirror techniques -- i.e. in Inosanto-Lacoste (and a lot of other systems), #1 is a forehand to the side of the head, and #2 is a backhand -- you could really change that to something generic like "horizontal high strike", and realize there is a forehand and backhand version. In so doing, you would reduce the 12 angles by close to half (I don't think this will work with #5 or #12). I'll bet some systems that have "only" six or seven angles probably do this.
You can even go further, and say there are only 4 techniques - a forehand, backhand, overhand, and thrust. They are just applied to high, middle, and low range. Kind of like the approach used in some styles of karate, where a reverse punch is still the same technique, just thrown to a high, middle, and low target.
You can even go further, and say there are only 4 techniques - a forehand, backhand, overhand, and thrust. They are just applied to high, middle, and low range. Kind of like the approach used in some styles of karate, where a reverse punch is still the same technique, just thrown to a high, middle, and low target.
K
krys
Guest
I train in two Arnis systems, Cinco Terros (5 strikes), and a muslim "escrima" system (5 of cinco terros + vertical downward strike).
I once was introduced to a system were 12 strikes could be countered with one strike.....
I just wonder if somebody on the list also practices Cinco Terros.
Mabuhay ang filipino silat at Arnis.
Christian.
I once was introduced to a system were 12 strikes could be countered with one strike.....
I just wonder if somebody on the list also practices Cinco Terros.
Mabuhay ang filipino silat at Arnis.
Christian.
K
krys
Guest
Just a correction on barts post on Cinco Terros, number 3 is forehand upward, number 4 is backhand upward..... at least this is how I learn the Cinco Terros in the Philippines....
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
Krys,
I've seen cinco teros demonstrated a number of different ways, both in the Philippines and in the US. The most common one in my experience was how I described it.
I think the important part of the cinco teros idea is the theory that all strikes are just variations of forehand (high and low), backhand (high and low) and then the center thrust, thereby distilling self defence to the point of only 5 lines.
I've seen cinco teros demonstrated a number of different ways, both in the Philippines and in the US. The most common one in my experience was how I described it.
I think the important part of the cinco teros idea is the theory that all strikes are just variations of forehand (high and low), backhand (high and low) and then the center thrust, thereby distilling self defence to the point of only 5 lines.
lhommedieu
Black Belt
I agree. It's interesting to note that one could also follow the theory that all strikes are just variations of forehand, backhand, and the center thrust, thereby distilling self defence to the point of only 3 lines.
With respect to strikes, one might point out to beginning students that the hand is generally on the forehand or backhand side of the center-line and that following the line of the hand will usually help dictate the line of the strike. However, they will also have to learn to read body angling and the mechanics of reverse strikes in order to pick out lines at a later stage in their training, wherein the above does not always hold true.
This happens at an intuitive level, which is why FMA's have striking patterns in the first place: to develop drills and exercises designed to burn responses into muscle memory. Later on, the student needs to develop sensitivity to feints, level changes, angle changes, double hits, etc. At this point, he or she has left the "we have 12 strikes in our system" level far behind.
Best,
Steve Lamade
K
krys
Guest
Bart,
just out of curiosity did the Cinco Terros people you saw also practice forms?
Was it pure Cinco Terros?
Some Arnis systems incorporate the Cinco Terros pattern but don't practice the forms.....
I mentioned angle 3 and 4 because these upward strikes are acompanied with a torsion of the wrist-shortening of the arc, and not so easy to understand when you start learning the style...
All the best.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
just out of curiosity did the Cinco Terros people you saw also practice forms?
Was it pure Cinco Terros?
Some Arnis systems incorporate the Cinco Terros pattern but don't practice the forms.....
I mentioned angle 3 and 4 because these upward strikes are acompanied with a torsion of the wrist-shortening of the arc, and not so easy to understand when you start learning the style...
All the best.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
Krys,
I've never come across a teacher that only taught cinco teros or who ascribed to a style that was called Cinco Teros. It was mentioned only as a structure within their training methodology, very much like the numbering systems of the strikes. The Modern Arnis people who demonstrated cinco teros do forms and so do the Doce Pares people.
In your Cinco Terros system are there a lot of forms? Do they only work with five lines or do they work variations within? Thanks.
I've never come across a teacher that only taught cinco teros or who ascribed to a style that was called Cinco Teros. It was mentioned only as a structure within their training methodology, very much like the numbering systems of the strikes. The Modern Arnis people who demonstrated cinco teros do forms and so do the Doce Pares people.
In your Cinco Terros system are there a lot of forms? Do they only work with five lines or do they work variations within? Thanks.
K
krys
Guest
Hello Bart,
Cinco Terros is a very old (disapearing) style of its own....
It comprises single baston, double baston and esapda y daga. (although the stick represents a blade).
There are many forms.... (associated with visualisation-breathing exercises).
We work only with the five lines but at different levels.... 2 high horizontal and vertical strikes are added to multiple counters....
Actually I've never seen drills in all my years of training, 50% of the training is based on forms, the other 50%: footwork, different striking exercises at different ranges, parrying-dodging with random attacks, reaction-mobility exercises sometimes with mobile tools..... and combat.
Hope this helps,
all the best.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
Cinco Terros is a very old (disapearing) style of its own....
It comprises single baston, double baston and esapda y daga. (although the stick represents a blade).
There are many forms.... (associated with visualisation-breathing exercises).
We work only with the five lines but at different levels.... 2 high horizontal and vertical strikes are added to multiple counters....
Actually I've never seen drills in all my years of training, 50% of the training is based on forms, the other 50%: footwork, different striking exercises at different ranges, parrying-dodging with random attacks, reaction-mobility exercises sometimes with mobile tools..... and combat.
Hope this helps,
all the best.
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.
Christian.
R
Rocky
Guest
Wow!!
You Modern Arnis guys need to brush up on your history... according to GM Presas. The Modern Arnis version of strikes, is primarily directed to the breaks in Spanish Armour, as is some of the other Systems, not all obviously, but some. Of course Modern Arnis wasn't around douring that time but its root systems were.
Rocky
You Modern Arnis guys need to brush up on your history... according to GM Presas. The Modern Arnis version of strikes, is primarily directed to the breaks in Spanish Armour, as is some of the other Systems, not all obviously, but some. Of course Modern Arnis wasn't around douring that time but its root systems were.
Rocky
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Was this true, then, with Balintawak also? As you know, our Balintawak 12 angles are all the same, w/ #'s switched around. So, I wonder where professor heard this theory from? Did he get it from Balintawak, or elsewhere? Professor was very talented, but obviously not a historian. So I wonder where the theory came from before a Remy.
I also wonder, since we are on the subject, why Modern Arnis 12 angles are the way that they are. I have to assume they came from Balintawak because the 12 in Balintawak are the same, but they are in a different order. So, this brings me to this question, why did Remy change the order? Was there a practical reason, or did Professor change the angling order because he wanted to simply to differentiate Modern Arnis from his Balintawak roots?
I am leaning towards the conjecture that Professor just wanted to differentiate his art, with no practical reason for the "angle change" other then that. I do not know for sure, though. Does anyone else have an opinion on the subject?
:asian:
