Guro Dan Inosanto's Panuntukan curriculum?

[LAKANPOPOT]

I need help understanding the way Guro Dan teaches the compression takedowns he does. He was showing this to us and I couldn't get it. To help you understand what I mean. He responds to a jab-cross using inside gunting then shield and thrust to the throat. It's the placement of his feet and the alignment of the opponent's body(which is now twisted) that makes it easier for him to push shove or press and takedown the opponent. He tries to explain it with a male triangle. But I guess I was so impressed and busy watching I couldn't absorb it. Please help anybody. Thanx in advance.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by LAKANPOPOT
I need help understanding the way Guro Dan teaches the compression takedowns he does. He was showing this to us and I couldn't get it. To help you understand what I mean. He responds to a jab-cross using inside gunting then shield and thrust to the throat. It's the placement of his feet and the alignment of the opponent's body(which is now twisted) that makes it easier for him to push shove or press and takedown the opponent. He tries to explain it with a male triangle. But I guess I was so impressed and busy watching I couldn't absorb it. Please help anybody. Thanx in advance.

I don't have anything to do with Dans curriculum but I think he's realting it to the male triangle because thats the direction of your energy flow and of course the direction of your technique.

If your in a right lead, you would be stepping with with your right foot and then stepping withn your left (the direction of your energy flow).

Hope that was in line enough for ya.



:asian:

 

[Ern-Dog]

Can you describe the entry and takedown with more detail. I'll try to be of some help.

For example...
Did he gunt the jab or the cross. When you say shield and thrust to the throat, do you mean a split entry. Which hand was trusting R or L. Was the L hand parrying the cross as the R hand was thrusting. Was the "shield" motion you described done on the inside or the outside of the cross. etc. etc.

 

[LAKANPOPOT]

Yes, he did. It starts with feeding a jab cross. thedefender does a catch then a gunting(either a backhand inside gunting,split entry,or inside horizontal gunting.) It's the bottom part where he does the different takedowns. One he calls silya or chair and the spinning throws.

 

[Ern-Dog]

Kenjit Siko.

The entry used was part of Guro Inosanto's Panantukan curriculum. But the takedown was Silat. Still a little foggy about the takedown itself. More details are needed.

For example...
Which foot did the opp. have forward? After the jab cross hand combo was thrown which foot did Guro step in with (rear or front foot)? Where was the foot placement (behind front or rear leg, on the foot, to the inside of the foot)?

I'm sorry if I'm not being of much help, but I've seen so much of the Maphilindo curriculum that I need some more details to answer your question completely.

 

[LAKANPOPOT]

Hi Ern-dog!
Actually, It depended. Sometimes he steps on it,Places his lead foot inside or behind it. goes around the opponent,etc. He says there is 42 different moves. ONE he starts with defending the jab-cross with a catch split-entry pulls down on the crese of the elbow takes him down Right side, left side or front. SECOND, he enters with jab-cross-uppercut up the groin kneels and places the lead foot behind the rear foot shoves with the shoulder kinda, and takes him down. Hope this helps.

Do you know of any good videos that might help? Thanx for your time and sharing.
Lakanpopot.

 

[Ern-Dog]

Okay

1.) Sounds like just a basic dumog type takedown. Serak does a similar takedown by overwrapping the arm. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of this tech. just remember not to pull down using the arms, but use the "seating" principle. The split entry is great for this tech. because after you enter you can gunt out to a backfist or you can bounce the destruction back into the opp's face or you can... Don't get me started, I could go on for days.

2.) The second takedown seems to be Kenjit Siko. I'll descibe two tech's and you tell me if I'm in the ballpark on this one.

Both my opp. and I are in L leads. Opp. throws a jab cross. I catch the jab then enter on the cross as I step in with my rear R foot which is placed behind my opp's front L leg. Complete takedown by dropping elbow into opp.'s chest which essentially trips him over you own R leg.

Variations: a)elbow can be delivered low (groin area) for takedown, b)instead of off balancing my opp. with my R elbow I use my whole are to push back as my L arm lifts his lead L leg to help with the throw. (I like this one it's more violent). c) Hand pushes at the V crease of the groin to off balance your opp.

OR

2.) What confuses me about your explanation is that Guro stepped in with his lead foot behind his opp.'s REAR leg which doesn't sound right. If you've made a mistake in your notes and he really stepped in with his rear leg, then this could be what he did...

Beset Luar (Outside back sweep) kinda like an Osoto Gari.



Give me some feedback on what I've given you, I don't mind answering your questions. As far as what video tapes are good for this kind of material shoot me an email.

 

[LAKANPOPOT]

Your on track there. It's coming back. He did say there are a lot of similarity in the panantukan and silat. He just said if we had enough time he can break it down for us to understand.

The way he explained it though was that it depended on the angle of where the weak part of his base triangle was. That's wear you step and push. Awesome concept.
1. Guru Dan also showed he puts pressure on the inguinal region. Right between the hip and groin.

2.Sometimes he would also sweep the rear leg then step into or through the lead leg and shove with the whole body. After doing a inside backhand gunting.

3. Catch the jab and elbow cover with a thrust to the side of the neck vs. the cross. then steps in with the rear foot and uppercuts under the cross pulls the opponent to disrupt his balance towards his back and does a circular head throw(my friend called it puna kapala or something.)

4. Off the jab cross (left lead) catch and jab cross then uppercut to the groin as he steps in with the rear foot behind the opp's rear foot to trap and does a single leg tackle (variation: right arm wrapped around the rear the left behind the lead like a double leg tackle)

I want to think it's right but I've only seen it at the seminar. I'm not sure if this is right. Thanx again.

 

[Ern-Dog]

Your explanations of the tech's are right there. Here are some extra details...

#2 is referred to as Beset Dallum (spellings vary) The way the takedown is completed depends on the system. Too much detail to go into...

#3 is referred to as an inside Puter Kapala (spellings vary). Mande Muda has some VERY nasty ways to take a person down with this tech. Again, I'd be typing all day...

#4 Sounds like an arm vine takedown. Harimau has a wide variety of "vine" takedown using the arms and legs. To illustrate the takedown better Guro Inosanto will sometimes grab a stick and do the same takedown with variations.

You seem to be right there with the understanding. I've seen Guro Inosanto do these throws over and over, but I get something new out of it every time. He's incredible, just when I think I've seen just about all there is to see with one of these throws, he opens up a new "door". Sometimes it's a new variation of a follow up or sometimes it might just be a small detail that doesn't seem very important, but when you start playing with it, you realize how important the little details are.

 

[LAKANPOPOT]

Thanx for the help. I understand what you mean. Guro Dan explains everymove with detail and history. Everytime he elaborates it looks like another technique but it's the same. Now I can add your notes to mine. thanx again.

 

[TLS]

LAKANPOPOT

You can see some great examples of the take downs on the following vids:

1) Harley Elmore's Panantukan

2)The Definitive Dan Inosanto Collection Panantukan

3)Rick Tucci's Maphilindo Vol 1-2

 

[LAKANPOPOT]

thanx, I'll check it out.

 

[arnisador]

The Budo International that's on the stands now (#14, dated January 2003 (sic)) has an interview with Dan Inosanto where he discusses the differences between various terms--eskrima/kali/arnis/silat and panatukan/pananjackman/dumog/etc. (sp?), amongst other things.

 

[TLS]

Thanks for the heads up.