The problem with "traditional" martial arts part 3

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by KPM, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Obsidian Fury

    Obsidian Fury Orange Belt

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    The crab leg takedown came from karate? That is so cool! I knew that grappling existed in Karate and TKD but not to that extent. Do you happen to know of some resource material to further look into grappling in Karate? I’ll be very interested in doing some research.
     
  2. TSDTexan

    TSDTexan Master of Arts

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    Patrick McCarthy, or Koryu Unchinade or the IRKRS has a lot of it. some of the very best.
    the International Ryukyu Karate Research Society
    has been doing the research to reincorporate the grappling that was left behind when karate was brought to Japan. they have great stuff.



    Iain Abernethy has a fair bit


    Karate's Grappling Methods
    by Iain Stuart Abernethy
    Amazon.com
    4.3 out of 5 stars 10
    Paperback
    $90.95(15 used & new offers)

    also look at stuff like...

    https://www.amazon.com/Locks-Grappl...&sprefix=karate+grapp&sr=8-97&ref=mp_s_a_1_97
     
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  3. Obsidian Fury

    Obsidian Fury Orange Belt

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    Looks great thanks a bunch.
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Frankly, there are far too many steps in those grappling vids. I would recommend studying MMA or Bjj grappling to see how they deal with strikes. It's far simpler and no where near complex and over the top.
     
  5. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    The problem with traditional Chinese martial arts, is that no one knows what traditional Chinese martial arts actually are, as the Communist government killed all the monks.
     
  6. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is a very naive statement to make.

    The communst government did a lot to suppress the practice of traditional Chinese martial arts. However, there are those who practiced in secret and have brought forth their methods after the government began to relax its persecution. And don’t think for a moment that monks were the only ones practicing traditional martial arts. I don’t know where you would have gotten such a notion.

    In addition, plenty of folks emigrated to other parts of the world, both before the communists took over, and as an escape of that government, and took their training with them and are teaching in their adopted homelands.
     
  7. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    How would you explain all of the different teaching lineages? There are lots, and they take them kinda seriously.
     
  8. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    Well, if you support and believe a government that has treated Tibet like dirt, best of luck to you.
     
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  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    REMINDER TO ALL MEMBERS:

    Political discussion is not permitted on Martial Talk, per the terms of service. If you want to discuss political topics, please visit a forum that fosters such discussion.

    __________
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    Martial Talk Moderator
     
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  10. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    This is a martial art forum take this crap somewhere else
     
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  11. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    Appreciate what you are saying moderator, however its impossible to discuss the issues with Chinese traditional martial arts, without mentioning that the Chinese traditional martial artists were largely affected by a historical event.

    Its like trying to talk about the dinosaurs but omitting the asteroid, because you don't want to offend anyone.
     
  12. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    Headhunter, if you wish to have an opinion you leave yourself open to begin offended. That's the price of free speech.

    It's just words on a forum, no one is trying to attack you. You can simply ignore it, if it's upsetting you so much.
     
  13. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    And yet, we've managed to do so for years. And will continue to do without the politics. You have my word on that.
     
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  14. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    Your free to be ignorant of Chinese martial arts history for years more, if you wish.

    But others may disagree, and you must accept that.

    Editing people on a forum is one thing, this doesn't work in real life.
     
  15. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    No..no you aren't weaseling out.

    You said there are no Chinese martial arts left because China extinguished them all.

    So how do you explain teaching lineages that extend in some cases for hundreds of years?

    Do you think they are all lying?
     
  16. PhilE

    PhilE White Belt

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    If you've just gone and ignored general historical events all your life, I'm not even going to bother try with you.
     
  17. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Wow.

    So you make a claim that is wrong, objectively, and when gently shown why you pull this nonsense?

    If you aren't capable of adult discussion, this isn't the forum for you. Maybe try Reddit.
     
  18. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Brown Belt

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    You and the article make good points.

    My teachers did not tell me my art was magic and it would allow me to beat others, their abilities convince me of that.
    I had the mistaken idea that ,because I was very good at MA, that I could beat an All Navy boxer.
    I had not thought that only the best physically able people would be an All Navy boxer.
    I had not thought that He trains 8 hours a day and I only train 2 hours a day.
    He goes around the world fighting the best fighters once a month.
    After he knock me out in the first round, I learn my MAs were not magic.
    IMO winning a fight has to do with physical ability and hours of training, more than which Art you are train in.
    IMO Mayweather in his prime could beat any martial artist in the ring.
    On the street fighting with someone like Jack Hwang in his prime, who had amazing abilities and fought in the Korean War,
    I am not as sure about the out come.
     
  19. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    So...where did you come up with the belief that only monks were training Chinese martial arts? And that nobody today even knows what real traditional Chinese martial arts look like?

    Why do you believe this?
     
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  20. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Brown Belt

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    I agree with you.
    Teachers do not want their knowledge to die.
    So Traditional Chinese Martial arts did not die.
    Most of the teachers left China, when the Communist took over,
    because they did not want to be limited and controlled by Wushu.
     

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