The Meaning of Ilyeo Poomsae

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by puunui, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    The 1975 Taekwondo poomsae textbook describes Ilyeo as follows:
    "In Buddhism the state of spiritual cultivation is said to be 'Ilyo'
    (Oneness), in which the body and the mind, I (the subject)
    and you (the object), the spirit and the substance are unified into
    oneness. It means that one derives the state of pure mind from
    profound faith, namely the state in which one has discarded all
    worldly desires. The ultimate ideal of Taekwondo is in this state of
    'Ilyo'. In this state of mentality or 'nirvana' one overcomes ego. The
    final goal of Taekwondo pursues is inded a discipline in which we
    concentrate attention on every movement, shaking off all worldly
    thoughts and obsession."

    The new Kukkiwon Textbook describes Ilyeo as follows: "Ilyeo"
    means the though of a great Buddhist priest of Silla Dynasty, Saint
    Won Hyo, which is characterized by the philosophy of oneness of
    mind (spirit) and body (material). It teaches that a point, a line or
    a circle ends up after all in one. Therefore, the poomsae Ilyeo
    represents the harmonization of spirit and body, which is the essence
    of martial art, after a long training of various types of techniques
    and spiritual cultivation for completion of Taekwondo practice."

    The Oneness spoken of at the time of the creation of the poomsae
    Ilyo meant the unification of the different Kwan, which was the
    foremost goal of the Taekwondo pioneers. In order to unify, each
    Kwan had to give up its worldly desire of individual Kwan expansion
    in favor of the goal of a single Taekwondo system, each individual
    piece moving together toward a single goal. It is what the pioneers
    sacrificed for and made a reality, by putting aside individual
    differences and working together.

    The original name of Ilyeo poomsae was Shilla poomsae, Shilla being
    the one which unified the Korean pennisula into a single country. Up
    until most recently, every leader of Korea for the last one
    thousand years came from Shilla, which today is called Kyong
    Sang Do. In this way, the pioneers hoped to do the same thing,
    unifying Taekwondo in the same fashion that the Three Kingdoms were
    unified under Shilla.

    An alternate explanation of the Buddhist overlay is found in the
    philosophy of the Jidokwan, which is the third major Kwan that led
    the unification efforts. The Jidokwan symbol is comprised of the
    familiar figure eight outline, called the Otugi. This represents the
    concept of "Seven Times down, Eight Times up". The outline of the
    Jidokwan symbol (which is also on the Kodokan Judo symbol,
    since the Jidokwan got its start at the Chosun Yun Moo Kwan, a
    Judo school) is the eight fold leaf pattern which represents the
    Buddhist eight fold path.

    It is said that Jidokwan's founder, GM CHUN Sang Sup, learned both
    Judo and Shotokan Karate. This is reflected in the Jidokwan symbol
    which is a merging of the Kodokan Judo symbol and also the Shotokan
    red circle logo.

    This Jidokwan figure eight otugi symbol is carried on in the Kukkiwon
    logo. If you look closely, you can see that the Kukkiwon logo is made
    up of a series of "Jidokwan snowmen" arranged in a circle. The
    Kukkiwon is considered the main body which completed the unification
    of Taekwondo.

    The Jidokwan's GM LEE Chong Woo is also considered to be a very
    central figure in the unification efforts, and played a heavy role in
    many of the decisions which led to the creation of a unified
    Taekwondo. This last form, can be considered a tribute to his
    efforts, as well as the efforts of his Kwan in creating what we have
    today.

    And so we can see that the Taekwondo pioneers who created the
    Kukkiwon poomsae were martial artists committed to high training
    standards and their work with the yudanja poomse is a roadmap for
    those who are interested in the journey, the way, the Do in the
    martial arts. The poomsae lay out in a very specific manner the
    journey which they themselves followed. It is a treasure map of the
    Way.
     
  2. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Ilyeo seems to refer specifically only to the unification of the singular person, correct? It does not refer to something more political or involving multiple factions like the term, Tong Il, does.
     
  3. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    The original name of this poomsae was Shilla, which was the Kingdom of the three that unified Korea. The idea behind the highest poomsae was that unification of Taekwondo was the highest goal at the time, and really remains the goal. Try reading the english description again with that idea.
     
  4. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Tae Kwon Do is still a martial art? It does still teach self defence and fighting or is it an entirely philosophical movement? it's very pretty all the spiritual stuff but can you still throw a punch or defend yourself when necessary while musing on the oneness of the universe?
     
  5. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    Musing is a form of meditation to occupy the conscious mind--so you are in a state of no-mind when it's time for self-defense. Pretty? That's just a by-product.

    You didn't know?
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2011
  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    'Pretty' was sarcastic. Another 'history' lesson on the Korean arts doesn't achieve 'no mind' as one has to release the ego for this to happen.
     
  7. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    I was responding tongue-in-cheek to your comment.
    Many things in life can focus only on simple, brutal efficiency. To find meaning in the journey or to appreciate depth and art is okay to add to the recipe for those who choose it.
     
  8. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Do you even know where the term "Martial Art" comes from and what it actually means?
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Naw, I'm as thick as two short planks me.
     
  10. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    Yeah, I figured you were just trolling....
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Oh dear me no. Not trolling, just tired of pomposity and 'history' lectures.
     
  12. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    If you have a personal issue with me or what I write, then either put me on ignore or take it up with me. You don't have to insult Taekwondo to make your point.

    >Tae Kwon Do is still a martial art? It does still teach self defence and
    >fighting or is it an entirely philosophical movement? it's very pretty all
    >the spiritual stuff but can you still throw a punch or defend yourself
    >when necessary while musing on the oneness of the universe?
     
  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually it wasn't TKD I was insulting rather I was defending it as the extremely effective martial art it is.

    As of late the 'musings' and lectures on it's history have taken the place of the effectiveness of it's techniques and of it's usefulness in self defence. There is less discussion on techniques and more on the shall we say for politeness' sake the personal views on other martial artists. The value has been placed less and less on training and more on the esoteric joys of ersatz academia.

    There is a place of course for Buddhism and spirituality in martial arts but this is a personal and individual choice, stating that one persons view of anything is correct is a folly.

    If you have an open mind towards discussion and don't insist on your views being always correct and can disagree with amicable posts without them turning personal then that is always welcome. Your views are your views that's all and we all have views.:)

    However it would be nice to have some posts on the effectiveness of TKD rather than it's politics and endless history lessons. 'Book' learning and the 'GM told me' posts are fine for when one wants to sleep but the 'action' posts are better to past on the benefits of TKD.
     
  14. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    May I suggest starting a topic you are interested in then, and leave this topic for others who might be interested in the subject? I recall an admonition to stay on topic from you recently. Surely the thought applies here too?
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sorry but this is on topic, I'm asking whether TKD is merely now a spiritual entity and no longer a fighting art. Puunui of course assumes I'm trolling.
     
  16. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    No, it is not. If you're going to play moderator, be consistent.
     
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm not a mod nor do I play at one, a mentor yes.

    If I post up saying my post is in topic it is, because I'd like an answer instead of endless quotes of what GM said to puunui.
    When did Buddhism become so important in TKD and why is it necessary for TKDists to practice Buddhism?
     
  18. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Then perhaps you could word your question in a different fashion if you're genuinely interested in an answer from puunui. You're coming off as rather combative to me and more dumping on the topic than anything else.

    I have no idea what a mentor does around here, but if it means helping to nudge things towards following the rules, I do feel your behavior in this thread is inconsistent with the goal of staying on topic. Not that I generally care for staying on topic, but then again I don't try to manage others in that way myself.

    Consistency. That's what I ask for whether you are a moderator or not.
     
  19. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    I read your first post as a troll too; hence my facetious reply. You can pick what threads you read. I ignore the pissin' contests too and prefer the technical/practical topics, but sometimes there are gems in the mud that result in interesting new topics. I did learn some things that matter to me from the posts on each of the black belt forms.
     
  20. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    Now we're getting somewhere. I couldn't find anything in the OP what a GM said to Puunui or the importance of Buddhism. It sounds like you're annoyed with Puunui's posts or his style elsewhere in the forum and are ranting about it here. Please clarify.123
     

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