The Legalization of Marijuana

[Lisa]

The legalization of marijuana may potentially save lives. Think about it.

I have thought about it.

It seems to me that the people who choose to take a life do so out of a lack of respect for life. Whether or not any particular substance is legal has no bearing whatsoever on their psychopathic tendencies.

In the story to which you refer, kid, that guy killed cops because he wanted to, not because marijuana is illegal.

You think about it.

Please Kid, read this link.

Flatlander is right. These deaths truly had nothing to do with illegal marijuana and the legalization of it wouldn't have changed a thing.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1110116338672_4/?hub=Canada

Sorry for the thread gank.

 

[Kreth]

Its true my old man went there and said the same thing. He beleives its almost a harmless drug compaired to all the others out there. He doesn't even use pot and he said this. My dad got major cool points from me at that time.

I agree. I think it's much less dangerous than even alcohol, for a number of reasons. After all, when's the last time you saw two stoners trying to beat the hell out of each other?

Jeff

 

[kid]

I have thought about it.

It seems to me that the people who choose to take a life do so out of a lack of respect for life. Whether or not any particular substance is legal has no bearing whatsoever on their psychopathic tendencies.

In the story to which you refer, kid, that guy killed cops because he wanted to, not because marijuana is illegal.

You think about it.

Dude i wasn't refering to anything in particular so for you to take one instance and think thats all i had thought of, well your wrong. Think of all the money the government spends on Marijuana alone in the Drugwars. I don't have an exact stat right now but read back a little ways in this thread and i'm sure you'll find one. Anyways, that money that they spend could be thrown at something totally differnt as cancer research or put into ssn or whatever actually will benefit from the money. It also could save lives of civilians who are just wanting to get some and fall victim to a dirty dealer or some junkie. It could potentially save lives of any non civilian who are trying to bust a marijuana dealer. If you take it away from them by selling it on legal statis it becomes more regulated. Think about that.

 

[kid]

I agree. I think it's much less dangerous than even alcohol, for a number of reasons. After all, when's the last time you saw two stoners trying to beat the hell out of each other?

Jeff

Thats so true.

 

[Lisa]

Dude i wasn't refering to anything in particular so for you to take one instance and think thats all i had thought of, well your wrong. Think of all the money the government spends on Marijuana alone in the Drugwars. I don't have an exact stat right now but read back a little ways in this thread and i'm sure you'll find one. Anyways, that money that they spend could be thrown at something totally differnt as cancer research or put into ssn or whatever actually will benefit from the money. It also could save lives of civilians who are just wanting to get some and fall victim to a dirty dealer or some junkie. It could potentially save lives of any non civilian who are trying to bust a marijuana dealer. If you take it away from them by selling it on legal statis it becomes more regulated. Think about that.

Just like alcohol and tobacco, marijuana will most likely be governed as to who can grow it and who can manufacture it and who can sell it. It will not become so legal that everyone and anyone will be able to grow the stuff because if that were the case the government wouldn't be able to tax the crap out of it and make money from it. You will still have illegal grow operations all over the country, you will still have law enforcement officers at risk trying to stop them, you will still have civilians fall victim to some dirty dealer of the now "black market" offering a cheaper high and raising crime rates due to people breaking into facilities that sell the stuff and stealing it. The money saved is an admirable concept but could it not also be argued that the government will now have to increase payments to drug and abuse programs, cancer research because of the new insurgance of marijuana related cancers and what about finding a way to test people against smoking pot and driving? Wouldn't that have to be done?

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the legalization of marijuana but I am not all for it either. I am just trying to weigh both sides of the scale here and I honestly believe that "legalizing" it would cause a domino effect and all the money we would supposedly save from fighting it as a crime would be used up elsewhere.

Just my two cents.

 

[Blind]

I don't think the drug war cost would come down that much in terms of detection, because it is still necessary to police the "bad boys" like coke and heroin etc. Most of the savings would come in freeing up the judicial system and some in the penal system, though I doubt that most of the people in prison for MJ are there for that alone.

As for the government taxing it I think it would be difficult to do, most people who would want to use the stuff would probably just grow their own(I am guessing there I admit). In that respect organized crime would lose a lot of their income from growing weed. It is pretty hard to police someone growing a bonsai tree or three in their living room, even if you could, what would be the penalty for growing a personal amount of a substance that is legal?

I don't really have any real interest either way as it is not really my kind of thing, but it does seem funny to me that alcohol is legal yet a plant that grows naturally is not. On the driving front rather than develop a test for the drug I think it would be better to punish stupid driving more severely. Having a reliable test would be extremely difficult as it stays in the system for a long time, as someone said earlier though, whats the penalty for a person driving who hasn't slept for three days?

My 2 cents.

 

[kid]

Just like alcohol and tobacco, marijuana will most likely be governed as to who can grow it and who can manufacture it and who can sell it. It will not become so legal that everyone and anyone will be able to grow the stuff because if that were the case the government wouldn't be able to tax the crap out of it and make money from it. You will still have illegal grow operations all over the country, you will still have law enforcement officers at risk trying to stop them, you will still have civilians fall victim to some dirty dealer of the now "black market" offering a cheaper high and raising crime rates due to people breaking into facilities that sell the stuff and stealing it. The money saved is an admirable concept but could it not also be argued that the government will now have to increase payments to drug and abuse programs, cancer research because of the new insurgance of marijuana related cancers and what about finding a way to test people against smoking pot and driving? Wouldn't that have to be done?

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the legalization of marijuana but I am not all for it either. I am just trying to weigh both sides of the scale here and I honestly believe that "legalizing" it would cause a domino effect and all the money we would supposedly save from fighting it as a crime would be used up elsewhere.

Just my two cents.

People are lazy. Most of us could have a small garden with our vegtables in it but do we? People can learn how to make a potent drink, some do, the majority doesn't. It's easier to get it at the store. If its legalized it should have restrictions on it. About the money being save and the money being made off taxes is gonna be spent else where, isn't that the point? Let me tell you something, people are not going to rob a store any more than a liqour store. You seem to have this mind set that only looks at the very worst part of society, you know what thats also the smallest part of that scale. All the shady crap kids get involved with will in trying to find a bag, these people can be cut out and are less likly to be exposed to harder Drugs.

 

[Tgace]

Dude i wasn't refering to anything in particular so for you to take one instance and think thats all i had thought of, well your wrong. Think of all the money the government spends on Marijuana alone in the Drugwars. I don't have an exact stat right now but read back a little ways in this thread and i'm sure you'll find one.

Yes...here it is. Note the bold part.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ws/kleiman.html

Marijuana generates more arrests than any other illicit drug. Much of that doesn't have anything to do with law enforcement specifically targeting drug infractions. Much of that is literally somebody's driving a little funny, gets pulled over and the cop smells the marijuana smoke or sees the baggie on the seat. There are relatively few police officers out there who are spending their time trying to catch people using marijuana. More in suburban and rural areas obviously than in urban areas, but marijuana enforcement isn't a very high priority, it's just that there's a lot of marijuana smoking.


And there are a lot of people that still act as if it were more or less legal. And therefore, violate Cheech and Chong's first rule of marijuana smoking, which is don't blow smoke [in a] cop's face. So there are a lot of arrests. Most of them don't lead to much of anything, except annoyance and embarrassment.


Now at the federal level, where there is a lot of effort at domestic marijuana production, you get a substantial number of people going to prison for mostly large scale cultivation. There are relatively many marijuana prisoners in the federal prison system, but that system holds only about 10% of the nation's prison population; the other 90% are in state and county institutions.



The federal prison system is heavily oriented toward drug offenses, somewhat more than half of all federal prisoners are in for drug offenses. And some noticeable fraction of that is marijuana. But still, if you look at the overall burden of drug law enforcement and drug related imprisonment, marijuana doesn't count very high. These are all guesses, no one really has good numbers. My best guess is that there are about 400,000 people in prison or jail at any one time for drug offenses: possession, not very much possession, some possession, distribution offenses. Of that something less than 10%--30,000 or 40,000 people--are in prison for marijuana offenses.


That's a lot of prisoners, but it's not a very large fraction of the overall prison effort. When people talk about the drug problem generically, whether they're talking about drug abuse or the cost of drug law enforcement, and then immediately switch the topic to marijuana, that's a little deceptive. Nothing we do about marijuana can really put a dent in either the problem of drug abuse or the problem of drug-related law enforcement and imprisonment, because those problems are overwhelmingly about other drugs.


Marijuana laws have become a symbolic battleground, where the real battle is over what we should do about cocaine. Some people say, "The Netherlands has legalized cannabis, and nothing terrible happened; therefore, the U.S. should legalize cocaine." There are four problems with that proposition. First, The Netherlands haven't actually legalized anything, though flagrant retail marijuana dealing is tolerated. Second, we don't really know much about what the effect has been on rates of marijuana use there. Third, something that worked for the Dutch might not work here. Fourth, cocaine isn't cannabis.



And, yet, what to do about cocaine is really the big drug policy question, unless you're courageous enough to address the problem of what to do about alcohol, which accounts for more violence, more crime, more sickness, more death and more arrests than all other drugs combined.

 

[kid]

Ok, i read yours you read mine.



http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/costs/real-costs.htm

 

[Tgace]

OK, where does it say that legalizing Marijuana will make a significant dent in those expenses?

 

[Tgace]

When people talk about the drug problem generically, whether they're talking about drug abuse or the cost of drug law enforcement, and then immediately switch the topic to marijuana, that's a little deceptive. Nothing we do about marijuana can really put a dent in either the problem of drug abuse or the problem of drug-related law enforcement and imprisonment, because those problems are overwhelmingly about other drugs.

Should we legalize Coke, Heroin, Meth. etc. too?

 

[kid]

OK, where does it say that legalizing Marijuana will make a significant dent in those expenses?

umm.... The graph.

 

[Tgace]

Ummm..it says "Drug War" nothing about a breakdown of costs per specific drug....the bulk of $$ and enforcement is for "hard" drugs. Legalizing Marijuana isnt going to clear up a whole lot of money for other enforcement.

 

[Kreth]

Ummm..it says "Drug War" nothing about a breakdown of costs per specific drug....the bulk of $$ and enforcement is for "hard" drugs. Legalizing Marijuana isnt going to clear up a whole lot of money for other enforcement.

I disagree... In the "War on Drugs", the government has spent a lot of money demonizing marijuana as the "gateway drug."

Jeff

 

[kid]

Should we legalize Coke, Heroin, Meth. etc. too?

they already have prescription drugs out there that give the same effects as those. I'm not saying that those should be legalized at all. Those are all very dangerous drugs that many people have overdosed on. Now, refering to the graph earlier lets say marijuana is an 8th of that. Thats still a giant amount of money. Lets say its a 10th thats still more money than either you or i will most likly encounter in our lives. That money can be thrown back in the drugwar and fight these leathal drugs. Now that could make a substantial difference.

 

[Tgace]

they already have prescription drugs out there that give the same effects as those. I'm not saying that those should be legalized at all. Those are all very dangerous drugs that many people have overdosed on. Now, refering to the graph earlier lets say marijuana is an 8th of that. Thats still a giant amount of money. Lets say its a 10th thats still more money than either you or i will most likly encounter in our lives. That money can be thrown back in the drugwar and fight these leathal drugs. Now that could make a substantial difference.

While many professionals who know more than I say that the increase in addicts and others seeking counseling (not arguing that as a reason to not legalize, just statistics) would eat up a big chunk of any money freed up. Look Im not saying "it wont free up money so dont legalize it". Im just saying that its a weak argument for legalization because the largest chunk of cash and enforcement is spent on coke, not marijuana. Most of that "marijuana enforcement cash" is spent by the feds (DEA) too. Local cops aren't letting murderers go because they are making weed busts. Like the author of the post I linked said.....

Marijuana generates more arrests than any other illicit drug. Much of that doesn't have anything to do with law enforcement specifically targeting drug infractions. Much of that is literally somebody's driving a little funny, gets pulled over and the cop smells the marijuana smoke or sees the baggie on the seat. There are relatively few police officers out there who are spending their time trying to catch people using marijuana.

and

Marijuana laws have become a symbolic battleground, where the real battle is over what we should do about cocaine.

 

[47MartialMan]

Ahh the 60's-70's...............I still have a pair of laced in the front, bell-bottom, kicking jeans.......

 

[kid]

While many professionals who know more than I say that the increase in addicts and others seeking counseling (not arguing that as a reason to not legalize, just statistics) would eat up a big chunk of any money freed up. Look Im not saying "it wont free up money so dont legalize it". Im just saying that its a weak argument for legalization because the largest chunk of cash and enforcement is spent on coke, not marijuana. Most of that "marijuana enforcement cash" is spent by the feds (DEA) too. Local cops aren't letting murderers go because they are making weed busts. Like the author of the post I linked said.....


and

It is only one of the many reasons to legalize. Save a dollar a day and it adds up.

 

[Tgace]

The thread 55 years has been coming to the topic of drugs and legalization of the. Up here in Canada it is becoming fairly liberal, and in most cases you just recieve a ticket, no court date. How do you all feel towards the legalization of majiuana? How close is the States, Really?

Cheers

Ryan

Coming back around. To post #1

I predict that most US states will decriminalize most user weight possession eventually. Seems to be the trend. I dont really see total legalization anywhere down the road.

 

[kid]

i agree in the most part, but i beleive that marijuana will eventually be legalized.