The ITF Pattern Moves That Have Changed Over Time (and/or are most contested)

[bluepanther]

From what I've heard, it is considered to be the oldest book on Taekwondo

What patterns are demonstrated in the book?

 

[Earl Weiss]

From what I've heard, it is considered to be the oldest book on Taekwondo.

There may have been a Military Manual with TK-D Techniques that pre dates this.

 

[BaehrTKD]

While I think the text is consistent with how it shows / explains this movement, there are most definitely more ways to execute fundamental motions than those used in the patterns. We would need probably 10times the number of pattern moves if they covered all the variations set forth in the texts.

Agreed. I think the reason my instructor made us bring the other hand back (retract it) is so that it is consistent with the other foundation movements being practiced as part of a set.

For example: If you're teaching low block, middle punch, back-fist side strike, middle block, high block, etc... the other hand is always retracted. If an exception was made for fingertip middle straight thrust, then it breaks the "flow" and "consistency" of the foundation movements set at a time when students are still learning the basics like withdrawing the non-attacking/blocking hand.

 

[BaehrTKD]

What patterns are demonstrated in the book?

That's a good question. I can't recognize any of the patterns, but the foundation movements are mostly recognizable. Example: The kick from a crouched position and the follow up punch in pattern Choong-Jang.

 

[bluepanther]

I can't recognize any of the patterns, but the foundation movements are mostly recognizable. Example: The kick from a crouched position and the follow up punch in pattern Choong-Jang.

Are you able to post pics of one complete hyung/poomsae?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Coming back to the hip is a representation of nukite, or pulling hand,

Correction: Re-reading my post I saw I typed "nukite" which is Japanese term for spear hand, instead of "hikite" which is pulling hand.

 

[Earl Weiss]

A, then it breaks the "flow" and "consistency" of the foundation movements set at a time when students are still learning the basics like withdrawing the non-attacking/blocking hand.

One of my theories of the system is what I refer to as the "Consistency Theory" Basically . if a technique is done a certain way then it should be consistent throughout the system.
However, I have another theory - an important Corollary The need for non - consistency theory . Things won't always be consistent, because that would ruin the versatility and adaptability.
FWIW Upset Fingertip Thrust does not bring the opposite hand to the hip. We also have other techniques where the opposite hand is not brought to the hip. No reason is stated for this so we are left to our own devices to determine why the Corollary applies.

 

[Earl Weiss]

What patterns are demonstrated in the book?

Reports are that it contained Hwa Rang, Chung Gun , Ul Ji, U-Nam (No longer part of the system since 1965) and Sam Il.

 

[Earl Weiss]

1959 Text can be downloaded https://historyoftaekwondo.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/1959-all-smaller-password.pdf

 

[bluepanther]

1959 Text can be downloaded https://historyoftaekwondo.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/1959-all-smaller-password.pdf

Thank you! Looks like it shows Pyong Ahn 1-5, Naihanchi 1-3, Jindo, Bassai, Sip Soo, Kong San Kun, Wang Shu, Sei San, Jion, and something that looks like Rohai. So basically all the Tang Soo Do forms.

 

[BaehrTKD]

Are you able to post pics of one complete hyung/poomsae?

I could email/create a link to the whole book if anyone would like it.

It's only 28 MB.

EDIT: Looks like people have found a link to it.

 

[bluepanther]

I could email/create a link to the whole book if anyone would like it

Someone already put up the link, they are shotokan/tang soo do forms.

 

[BaehrTKD]

Reports are that it contained Hwa Rang, Chung Gun , Ul Ji, U-Nam (No longer part of the system since 1965) and Sam Il.

Pattern U-Nam became Choong-Jang. Some interesting historical tidbits there too.

 

[bluepanther]

When were the I.T.F patterns created? Early 1960's? Late 1950's? Until the Palgwes were created, looks like everyone did either I.T.F or the traditional shotokan/TSD patterns.

 

[BaehrTKD]

When were the I.T.F patterns created? Early 1960's? Late 1950's? Until the Palgwes were created, looks like everyone did either I.T.F or the traditional shotokan/TSD patterns.

If TKD was officially named in the 1950's, I'd say work began on the patterns in the 50's and into the 60's. The earliest Legacy guide books don't contain all of the 24 patterns we know today.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Pattern U-Nam became Choong-Jang. Some interesting historical tidbits there too.

Sir, no, not really . In recent times some people have now performed U Nam and posted Video on the net.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If TKD was officially named in the 1950's, I'd say work began on the patterns in the 50's and into the 60's. The earliest Legacy guide books don't contain all of the 24 patterns we know today.

Reports are that 1959 contained Hwa Rang, Chung Gun , Ul Ji, U-Nam (No longer part of the system since 1965) and Sam Il.
By 1965 - Publication date all 24 patterns had been created but the last 4 of the time were not done in time for the printing nd first appear in the 1972 text.

 

[Earl Weiss]

When were the I.T.F patterns created? Early 1960's? Late 1950's? Until the Palgwes were created, looks like everyone did either I.T.F or the traditional shotokan/TSD patterns.

Reports are that 1959 contained Hwa Rang, Chung Gun , Ul Ji, U-Nam (No longer part of the system since 1965) and Sam Il.
By 1965 - Publication date all 24 patterns had been created but the last 4 of the time were not done in time for the printing nd first appear in the 1972 text.

Prior to KKW inventing new patterns yes most any Korean could jump on the KKW bandwagon and be doing whatever form set they had been doing. 1975 -1977 trained at a school with the KKW and WTF flags on the wall, General Choi's1972 Book in Korean on the desk, and did the Chang Hon Patterns.

 

[MadMartigan]

Sir, no, not really . In recent times some people have now performed U Nam and posted Video on the net.

I believe the U Nam you are referring to is also called Woo Nam. It is incredibly similar to Choong Jang. For anyone interested, GM CK Choi put a great deal of work into finishing the pattern and put this video out. He also wrote out a step by step guide (in the format used in Gen Choi's books) on his TaeKwonDoPioneers website for anyone who wanted to learn it.

GM CK Choi wrote the following description of his work on the pattern (quoted from the above tkdpioneers website):

Woo Nam is the pseudonym for the First President of the Republic of Korea, Dr. Syngman Rhee [1948-1960], who approved Tae Kwon Do as a Korean Martial Art.

General Choi created Woo- Nam Tul to honor President Rhee’s contribution to Tae Kwon Do. Unfortunately, President Rhee was forced to resign due to the nationwide protests against his government in 1960 and Woo- Nam Tul was not included as one of the Tae Kwon Do Tuls.

Due to the continued interest in Woo-Nam Tul, Grand Master C. K. Choi studied and rehearsed the original copy that General Choi wrote in Korean, which was published in his Tae Kwon Do book in Korean in 1959. Based on his experience in assisting General Choi with creating Gae-Baek Tul in 1961,Grand Master Choi found the original copy to be a draft.

In order to preserve the legacy of Woo-Nam Tul, Grand Master C K Choi has finished completing the Woo-Nam Tul with minimal changes so as to adhere to General Choi’s Tul creation standards[techniques withstanding], i.e. to stay on the diagram while performing movements, to finish the Tul on the same spot where it started, and to perform the Tul in a natural sequence with grace and beauty.

The WOO-NAM TUL is for all levels of black belt.

Please note : the correct name is WOO-NAM TUL, not U-NAM TUL.​

 

[Earl Weiss]

I believe the U Nam you are referring to is also called Woo Nam. It is incredibly similar to Choong Jang. For anyone interested, GM CK Choi put a great deal of work into finishing the pattern and put this video out. He also wrote out a step by step guide (in the format used in Gen Choi's books) on his TaeKwonDoPioneers website for anyone who wanted to learn it.

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There is no doubt the patterns contain some similar segments. Not unlike Ju Che containing elements also contained in Ko Dang.