The future of the TKD section

[ETinCYQX]

The solution to me seems to be that we all grow a bit of a thicker skin. I'd sooner see the TKD board closed than turn into the kind of useless pablum that occupies other martial arts forums, TKD ones in particular. Politics are part and parcel of Taekwondo and we have a responsibility as Taekwondoin and federation members to understand what's going on and why. If the desire is to have us pat each other on the back about everything that gets posted and never discuss anything, I won't bother continuing to post and I'd bet a number of others feel the same way.

 

[miguksaram]

Yes, it is okay.

Then don't be surprised when people question you about how you achieved your ranks.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Yes, it is okay.

Okay for you, you mean. It's a big affront when you're questioned judging by your reactions.

 

[The Last Legionary]

At least 1 person still doesn't get it.

I'd like to say they will be missed, but I never lie.

The argument going on right now is a prime reason why this section's at risk of being dumped I think.

If this is an example of TKD's finest, it's no wonder most other arts consider you lot a ****ing joke who buy rank and think kicking dry pine is important.

"TKD, the Community College of the Martial Arts World".

This thread reads like a high school drama queens Facebook wall.

God, what a bunch of pathetic children. If I had the ban hammer I'd boot at least 3 people, maybe 5. Clean house, let them whine elsewhere and return the site to some level of civil discussions.

That takes stones. Wonder if there are any stones here.

 

[ETinCYQX]

At least 1 person still doesn't get it.

I'd like to say they will be missed, but I never lie.

The argument going on right now is a prime reason why this section's at risk of being dumped I think.

If this is an example of TKD's finest, it's no wonder most other arts consider you lot a ****ing joke who buy rank and think kicking dry pine is important.

"TKD, the Community College of the Martial Arts World".

This thread reads like a high school drama queens Facebook wall.

God, what a bunch of pathetic children. If I had the ban hammer I'd boot at least 3 people, maybe 5. Clean house, let them whine elsewhere and return the site to some level of civil discussions.

That takes stones. Wonder if there are any stones here.

Erm, what? How is your little melt down any more mature? I really hope you're younger than me and I'm 20. If you're an instructor I'm shocked.

 

[shesulsa]

Wow. Y'all still don't get it. It's all about you, isn't it?

 

[shesulsa]

what is the great debate? the great debate is the never ending argument over lineage, history, terms, definitions etc. This is -the- only place on martialtalk where such debates will be allowed. Read the forum rules for the specific guidelines.

understand??????

 

[ETinCYQX]

Wow. Y'all still don't get it. It's all about you, isn't it?

I have to say I really don't see very much on this board that I'd consider outside the realm of normal debate. There's an occasional flame fest and an occasional screaming match, but a big community will have that. Conflict and controversy is a big part of any martial art that stays growing and developing and I for one feel that the board and community stagnates without controversy.

 

[miguksaram]

"TKD, the Community College of the Martial Arts World".

HEY!!! I'm just a Basket Weaving 101 class away from my AAS and another black belt so back off! ha.ha.ha.

This thread reads like a high school drama queens Facebook wall.

Not yet, because no one has been called a dirty whore....but give it time.

God, what a bunch of pathetic children. If I had the ban hammer I'd boot at least 3 people, maybe 5. Clean house, let them whine elsewhere and return the site to some level of civil discussions.
That takes stones. Wonder if there are any stones here.

I have one in my shoe...does that count?

Listen I agree with you, even though I am a perpetrator in much of this. It can get petty as most online discussions will tend to do. Like your sig quote says "....human stupidity is limitless." With that said, I believe you should just dish out a virtual spanking and send us to bed without desert.

 

[shesulsa]

I have to say I really don't see very much on this board that I'd consider outside the realm of normal debate. There's an occasional flame fest and an occasional screaming match, but a big community will have that. Conflict and controversy is a big part of any martial art that stays growing and developing and I for one feel that the board and community stagnates without controversy.

Respectful discussion that does not disrupt the harmony of the board is what this community is all about. There are places for the kind of arguments that have recently been seen in this section and IT IS NOT HERE. The refusal to follow the guidelines and rules is equivalent to noobs coming in to your dojang and interrupting classes with continued disrespectful behavior.

This section is not just for the handful of people who are members here, it is for the world to see, for artists of other styles to read and learn from, the purpose of which to spread and encourage brotherhood and understanding. Respectful disagreement can be had without the crap we've seen here recently.

You all have been encouraged by the mentors, warned by the moderators & administrators and smacked by the owner of the board and you still want to try to defend these actions? What are you not getting?

What language does Bob Hubbard have to post it in? How many infractions do MJS and JKS have to issue? How many TKDin have to be banned?

You DO realize that you're representing your art, your school, your lineage, your teachers, your students and your association when you take part in this, right?

 

[chrispillertkd]

Hmm, let me reword. Some of my best teachers, in and out of martial arts, have been jerks. Sometimes their method of delivery gets in the way of the lesson (an intentional one or otherwise) they are teaching, but at times the abrasiveness is effective too. In college, I had a few courses where the professor used the Socratic method to help us open our minds to other perspectives, and definitely this could be intense and adversarial at times.

I have had quite the opposite experience. In fact, the vast majority of teachers I have had in college, high school, etc. who have been jerks haven't had much worth teaching. They used their lack of social skills to cover for the fact that their teaching skills were lacking. You can certainly challenge someone's preconceived ideas without being belligerent, I think.
And I have experienced the Socratic method at the hands of more than one professor who didn't need to be antagonistic about it, to everyone's benefit.

It's funny, recently I had lunch with an old martial arts brother of mine and we were discussing a similar topic. I mentioned that I knew a very high ranking student of a very senior instructor but the student, despite the fact that he held quite high rank (one of the instructor's senior student, in fact), was - to put it mildly - an expletive deleted. I asked my friend if he thought it would be worth while if I studied with said person, or his instructor. My friend said he thought it would be even given the obvious character flaws of the student or if I had a problem with him I could consider his instructor and train with him myself. But, I asked, isn't learning how to be a good person the most important thing about martial arts training? Certainly in Taekwon-Do it is with the emphasis on the Tenets and Moral Culture. His own training in Praying Mantis Kung-Fu also places a very high emphasis on character development being influenced by Confucianism to a large degree. My friend agreed with this. So I asked why I would want to train with someone who was so lacking in social skills and I also wondered what it said about the instructor's ability to judge a person's character. I can go anywhere to learn how to kick or punch or wrist lock some one. Any idiot can teach me those things. But are they the kind of people I want to associate myself with? No. I understand that there is a difference between guiding someone on the way and walking it yourself, but those two things aren't completely divorced from each other. And, frankly, if that's their idea of being a good teacher, they're not.

FYI, this wasn't about another Taekwon-Do instructor. I'd never leave my instructors even if they tried to kick me out (as I've told them myself ) but rather a different style I was considering cross training in. I've been so spoiled having my instructors that sometimes it can come as a huge shock when I meet people who are their juniors who don't act like I would expect a white belt to act.

I don't know that anyone here at MT is trying to 'teach' when they post, but I can say I have read information here that I was able to research further and then later use to my own benefit in my real life. And sometimes the information came from a post that was written in a fashion that was less than friendly. I'd like to see the KMA section of MT be a more peaceful area, but I don't think all the conflict is a bad thing either. But then I am not a moderator.

Oh, I've seen it. It's blatantly obvious in some cases (which is when I simply don't get involved in a thread, or at least not with the poster in question). As for conflict in the section, it's a fixable problem.

In the end, we all need to take a chill pill. Occasional absences from the boards are good when we lose perspective and become incensed at other people over the internet. Might be a good time for some of us to take a voluntary vacation before the mods make it mandatory?

I agree. There were several months where I didn't post and there are some posters I simply won't reply to for my own peace of mind. And that's a lesson I had to learn the hard way. In the end, if I lose my self-control because of what some keyboard warrior posts then did I have any in the first place? Not much.

In the end, to paraphrase shesulsa, you catch more flies with honey...

Pax,

Chris

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Then I simply suggest this to everyone (including me);

• Put the hard feeling on the shelf and let them collect dust.
• Treat others like we'd like to get treated.
• Treat this thread as a clean slate and start fresh with each other.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Respectful discussion that does not disrupt the harmony of the board is what this community is all about. There are places for the kind of arguments that have recently been seen in this section and IT IS NOT HERE. The refusal to follow the guidelines and rules is equivalent to noobs coming in to your dojang and interrupting classes with continued disrespectful behavior.

This section is not just for the handful of people who are members here, it is for the world to see, for artists of other styles to read and learn from, the purpose of which to spread and encourage brotherhood and understanding. Respectful disagreement can be had without the crap we've seen here recently.

Whatever disrespect happens here is from TKDin having thin skin and taking things personally, my first post in the thread said that. I've been guilty of it, it was just as stupid when I did it. Questions of rank/lineage are asked to get an idea of another's perspective, not to debase anyone.

I have no concerns about anyone's opinion of Taekwondo. It's irrelevant. If you understand why it happens, good, if you don't, fine.

You all have been encouraged by the mentors, warned by the moderators & administrators and smacked by the owner of the board and you still want to try to defend these actions? What are you not getting?

Believe me, I understand fully.

What language does Bob Hubbard have to post it in? How many infractions do MJS and JKS have to issue? How many TKDin have to be banned?

I've never been banned or gotten an infraction, so I'm going to go ahead and assume I'm safe for the time being.

You DO realize that you're representing your art, your school, your lineage, your teachers, your students and your association when you take part in this, right?

Yes, I do. I've posted my entire lineage multiple times. I have no secrets. I know where most of the active posters on this board got their rank. I assure you my instructor isn't that concerned with what I post on a message board. Even if he was, he'd agree with most of what I've said.

 

[shesulsa]

:BSmeter:

If someone is going to make a public statement attacking credentials in THIS section, then taking it to the GD section is frankly stupid. First off, he hasn't even responded here in this thread. What makes you think he's going to own up down there where no one hardly goes anyway? It ain't bitching and whinning.

If you make a statement attacking another's credentials here in the TKD section then you should be willing and able to back up that statement here in the TKD section. Or do you think it's okay to just make some crap up and post it?

One might question one's security about their rank if they feel they must chase another member around demanding an apology. How about you - again - BE A GOOD CITIZEN OF THE BOARD - you know, a grown-up - and post it where it belongs? Don't you think he will join you in that debate in that section? I feel certain he will since you few who perpetuate this crap drag it around with you wherever you go on this board - this thread included!

 

[shesulsa]

Then I simply suggest this to everyone (including me);

• Put the hard feeling on the shelf and let them collect dust.
• Treat others like we'd like to get treated.
• Treat this thread as a clean slate and start fresh with each other.

I can be good with that. Who else can be?

 

[ETinCYQX]

I think that was the general spirit of my first post.

 

[Twin Fist]

i have been saying for YEARS that people need to grow up and get some thicker skin.

 

[shesulsa]

It's not just thicker skin. It's a respect for the rules and the appropriate place for this type of disagreement.

 

[Twin Fist]

thicker skins meanless reported posts. Everyone with an overly sensitive vag hitting "report post" every 12 secs is part of the problem. People are gonna disagree.

that doesnt mean people have to get pissy about it.

 

[shesulsa]

thicker skins meanless reported posts. Everyone with an overly sensitive vag hitting "report post" every 12 secs is part of the problem. People are gonna disagree.

that doesnt mean people have to get pissy about it.

Yes - you don't report posts that illustrate technique that goes against the principles of your kwan; you don't report posts that ask questions about the efficacy of techniques, you don't report posts that give alternatives to your approach.

You DO report people who follow you from thread to thread demanding apologies for something you said, you DO report people who repeatedly question your rank outside the appropriate venue, you DO report people who issue threats and repeated, bona-fide personal insults such as name-calling, you DO report people who consistently hijack threads to suit their own purpose.

D8ck or V4g, we can do without sexist terminology, too.