Tell me about your forms

[dvcochran]

I want people to try to approach this thread differently than other threads. Before you read any of the other replies, I want you to write your reply to my question. Then, go ahead and discuss the other threads. (This is sort of like a similar request recently to post questions, but no answers, I want to start this thread with answers, and then follow up with discussion).

What I'm curious about is the forms your art/style/school has. Or if you don't have forms, why that is. Some things I'm curious about:

• What art/style you are taking.
• The purpose of your forms.
• The length of your forms.
• The number of forms in your curriculum.
• Are your forms linear in progression or is there different orders you can learn them in?
• Are your forms rigid in their execution or open to interpretation and/or modification?
• The pacing of your forms.
• Anything you can think of that I haven't even thought of.

I'm curious how many different answers there are.

• World Tae Kwon Do (Federation)/Kukkiwon TKD. We were originally a Moo Duk Kwan school who slowly, but never completely migrated to WT(F)/KKW.
• As far as the purpose of our forms, that is a pretty academic question and answer. In the simplest context a Poomsae, is a defined pattern of self defense and attack motions.
• Kicho Hyung (Basic) Forms 1-3
  
• Taegueks - 8 WT/KKW color belt forms.
• Pyong Ahns (or Pinans) - 5 color belt forms.
• Palgwes - 8 color belt forms. Used before the Taegueks.
• WTF Black Belt forms - 8 - Koryo, Keumgang, Taebaek, Pyongwon, Sipjin, Jitae, Cheonkwon, Hansoo, Ilyeo
• Nai Han Chi (Ni Hachi) Forms 1-3
• Length varies greatly from 20 moves, some consisting of only one kind of block, punch, and stance, to over 60 moves in one form.
• 35 forms or higher. There are some very advanced forms such as Kyong Sang Guem (not spelled right) that few people learn.
• The basic, Pinans, and Taegueks forms are linear in progression for the most part. The Palgwes are usually not introduces until green belt and higher as added curriculum for more involved students. The first 4 BB forms are linear but beyond that it is largely up to the student.
• Rigid in execution but greatly different from person to person based on ability. No modification although GM Shin has been known to change a subtle move in some color belt forms every year or so to keep the higher color belts and BB's on their toes.
• The color belt forms have a mostly consistent cadence (1000-1, 10002, etc..) but as you progress there are double moves and chambers that change the cadence. But the moves are not rigid or stiff. They are "outer body" moves that especially use the hips to generate power.
• Every form has one main meaning or reference. Many can be linked to multiple references. I have worked out in Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, and American MA's. I love the bigger movements of WTF and MDK (at least ours) forms and SD segments and of course the kicks. Being able to marry my TKD knowledge with, especially Kali and ground fighting, is a wonderful and extremely applicable experience.

 

[skribs]

• Kicho Hyung (Basic) Forms 1-3

• Taegueks - 8 WT/KKW color belt forms.

• Pyong Ahns (or Pinans) - 5 color belt forms.

• Palgwes - 8 color belt forms. Used before the Taegueks.

• WTF Black Belt forms - 8 - Koryo, Keumgang, Taebaek, Pyongwon, Sipjin, Jitae, Cheonkwon, Hansoo, Ilyeo

• Nai Han Chi (Ni Hachi) Forms 1-3

I'm noticing this common theme with Taekwondo schools. My school doesn't even do the Taegeuks. My old school when I was a kid did the Taegeuks, but also had the Kibons (basic), Palgwes, and "Exercises" (which were like mini-forms). Your school does the Taegeuks, but also another 16 or so forms.

The Taegeuks don't seem to be that popular to me, in that a lot of schools seem to do them as part of the KKW requirement, but then also have the forms they like.

When we were looking at doing the Taegeuks at my school I went and started learning them, and I didn't necessarily dislike them...but I didn't like them as much as the Palgwe forms.

 

[dvcochran]

I'm noticing this common theme with Taekwondo schools. My school doesn't even do the Taegeuks. My old school when I was a kid did the Taegeuks, but also had the Kibons (basic), Palgwes, and "Exercises" (which were like mini-forms). Your school does the Taegeuks, but also another 16 or so forms.

The Taegeuks don't seem to be that popular to me, in that a lot of schools seem to do them as part of the KKW requirement, but then also have the forms they like.

When we were looking at doing the Taegeuks at my school I went and started learning them, and I didn't necessarily dislike them...but I didn't like them as much as the Palgwe forms.

I agree with the importance of the Taegueks. I feel bad for the younger, uniformed students who are taught nothing else.

 

[TSDTexan]

What art/style you are taking.

The art of Karate, from the tradition of Doshinkan. This is a very deep and broad tradition, that even contains Kungfu Chunfa forms, beyond the Okinawan forms.

I won't be discussing the previous art of TSD in this post. As I am not under a teacher in that art currently, and am a journeyman instructor in it.

Nor am I participating in any tsd associations or federations. So I wont be gaining any further dan ranks there. As the SBD/MDK has been very litigious against its former students and Yudansha I dont think I will ever come home.

Independent TSD with a 90% no gi emphasis legacy.

The purpose of your forms.

They teach you many things, but the purpose is form specific or dependent. We have forms that record striking and kicking, or striking and sweeping and throwing, we have forms that teach body posture and breathing. As many purposes as their are forms squared.

The length of your forms.

Some are very short 18 counts Some are long 130+ movements long.

The number of forms in your curriculum.

The number is varied, year by year.
There are a certain number of permanent forms, some that appear for a few years and are later retired.

Maximum number seen about 130.
It has seen a reduction and is about 110 at the moment.


Are your forms linear in progression or is there different orders you can learn them in?

The forms are linear or progressive over all.
Especially those that are a series.

(Even though we have the Kibons or Taikyoku basic forms they are so basic that they are only taught to a brand new beginner for two weeks.)

Nifanchin 1-3
Kyoku 1-7
Pinan 1-5
Gekisai 1-4

A white belt will learn the first of each of the different series. A yellow will learn the second of each of these, and a few standalone kata.

And so on. The given series build on lessons and techniques from the first, and further expand into other things.

But if I show up for class, and there are 6 blackbelts, and I am the only mudansha present, I will be doing whatever kata that is worked on that day.
Meaning I might be getting into a kata that is early for me.

Are your forms rigid in their execution or open to interpretation and/or modification?

Pretty rigid, but the kata may be revised by the head of the system. And that version becomes current one. Older kata versions are still considered valid, but not current.

A black belt may drop out for a while, if he returns some kata may be identical or have changed.

The pacing of your forms.


Can be very fast, or pretty slow depending on what the Kata is emphasizing. Sanchin is done slowly for dynamic tension, deep abdominal breathing.

All the forms can be done at real time fight speed throughout, or the kata's own specific speed with its unique pauses or counted steps with a long pause or short pause in between counts, to aid in didactics.

This is kinda dojo/instructor/class specific.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I teach Kukkiwon Taekwondo. We practice the Taegeuk Poomsae (8 forms) since they are the official forms. My curriculum is not heavily focused on poomsae, so we don’t teach any other sets. I find Taegeuk 1 is simple enough, so I don’t use any kibon (basic) forms, with the exception of a basic pattern (done from horse stance) consisting of basic hand techniques found in the poomsae. Each rank adds the new hand techniques from their ranking poomsae in basic order that they appear in the poomsae. For white and yellow belts, this basic pattern is only 8 movements (punch, arae makki, momtong makki, olgeul makki with each hand). Each successive color belt adds a few techniques, so the same pattern gets longer.

Like many others, the purpose of poomsae practice is to learn basic technique, breathing, balance, and control of the body. I also draw a parallel between poomsae and the “do” of Taekwondo in terms of paying attention to detail (discipline) and learning how to make self-corrections.

I intentionally don’t have large sets of “testing” material to memorize. This allows me to be more dynamic with my lesson plans and not be forced to cover “test” material with all of my class time.


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