Taekwondo: is it a sport or a martial art? ( again)

[Christian Soldier]

I hope this doesn't come off as argumentative, I mean no disrespect, but

1. Could you clarify what you mean by "effective martial art"?

2. Krav Maga is an integrated tactical self-defense and combat system. Not a martial art.

Cyracious pretty much covered 2. and MCMAP stands for Marine Corp Martial Art Program and is very similar to krav so I think that one counts too, I'm sure the deffinition of effective martial art varies a lot. But for me, the way I figure it is if you could use it in battle while wearing full uniform/tac vest/boots etc. There are other scenarios as well that these effective martial arts can fit into but that's a pretty good general quallifier.

For instance this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3zIrS36U4k&feature=relmfu move will work superbly in tournaments, but not in full battle gear or most scenearios on the street.

Okay, I'm having trouble finding the 'battle ready' TKD techniques on YT becuase most of the videos are demos designed for flash and such. But I assure you, those techniques do exist.

 

[Cyriacus]

Okay, I'm having trouble finding the 'battle ready' TKD techniques on YT becuase most of the videos are demos designed for flash and such. But I assure you, those techniques do exist.

Straight Punches.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I hope this doesn't come off as argumentative, I mean no disrespect, but

1. Could you clarify what you mean by "effective martial art"?

2. Krav Maga is an integrated tactical self-defense and combat system. Not a martial art.

Martial art means war science. In this case, art is not being used in the fine arts sense, but in the science/method sense. Technically, no unarmed self defense system is a martial art, and most of what are considered effective self defense systems are designed for civilian rather than military application.

If you use 'martial' in the general sense to mean 'fighting' which would include self defense, and if it is being taught in a systematized and scientific way, the Krav Maga certainly is a martial art. If it is not taught in a scientific way, then you're just brawling, in which case there would be no need to have a formal system with a name.

The term martial art, as it is used almost universally, is interchangeable with 'fighting system,' regardless of the application (sport, self defense, etc.).

 

[Dobbelsteen]

Martial art means war science. In this case, art is not being used in the fine arts sense, but in the science/method sense. Technically, no unarmed self defense system is a martial art, and most of what are considered effective self defense systems are designed for civilian rather than military application.

Martial refers to the Roman god of war, not to war itself. It seems more logical to me that Martial arts would refer to the god´s fighting skills.´Combat science´ seems like a more fitting description then ´war science´. In that case it would´t make a difference if it is meant for civilian or military application.

 

[Cyriacus]

Martial refers to the Roman god of war, not to war itself. It seems more logical to me that Martial arts would refer to the god´s fighting skills.´Combat science´ seems like a more fitting description then ´war science´. In that case it would´t make a difference if it is meant for civilian or military application.

The term martial art has become heavily associated with the fighting arts of eastern Asia, but was originally used in regard to the combat systems of Europe as early as the 1550s. An English fencing manual of 1639 used the term in reference specifically to the "Science and Art" of swordplay. The term is ultimately derived from Latin, and means "Arts of Mars," where Mars is the Roman god of war.[SUP][1][/SUP] Some martial arts are considered 'traditional' and are tied to an ethnic, cultural or religious background, while others are modern systems developed either by a founder or an association.

 

[Archtkd]

"The term martial art has become heavily associated with the fighting arts of eastern Asia, but was originally used in regard to the combat systems of Europe as early as the 1550s. An English fencing manual of 1639 used the term in reference specifically to the "Science and Art" of swordplay. The term is ultimately derived from Latin, martial arts being the "Arts of Mars," the Roman god of war.[SUP][1][/SUP] Some martial arts are considered 'traditional' and are tied to an ethnic, cultural or religious background, while others are modern systems developed either by a founder or an association."

Be careful not to blur Your interpritation of what a Martial Art is, with what the words can mean.

It's interesting to note that the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, the world's leading guide on the English language, describes martial arts thus: "various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, which originated as forms of self defence or attack, such as judo, karate and kendo."

 

[Cyriacus]

It's interesting to note that the Concise Oxford English Dictionary, the world's leading guide on the English language, describes martial arts thus: "various sports or skills, mainly of Japanese origin, which originated as forms of self defence or attack, such as judo, karate and kendo."

Yeah - Its kinda like how Martial Arts, a blend of two words, can be searched for in a Dictionary. If You look up both individual words, it gets You a different definition.
Also, since We're having fun:

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karate Pronunciation: /kəˈrɑːti/

Translate karate into French | into German | into Italian | into SpanishDefinition of karate
noun

[mass noun]

• an oriental system of unarmed combat using the hands and feet to deliver and block blows, widely practised as a sport.

• It was formalized in Okinawa in the 17th century, and popularized via Japan after about 1920. Karate is performed barefoot in loose padded clothing, with a coloured belt indicating the level of skill, and involves mental as well as physical training

Ok, so the following is true, of all Karate:
1; You use Your hands and feet only to deliver and block blows.
2; It is widely practiced as a sport


sport Pronunciation: /spɔːt/

Translate sport into French | into German | into Italian | into SpanishDefinition of sport
noun

• 1an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:
  

3; Colored Belts indicate level of skill.
4; There is ALWAYS mental as well as physical training.

Also, sorry about the Bold. I literally cant edit it into normal text for some reason.

Lets also define Judo.

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judo Pronunciation: /ˈdʒuːdəʊ/

Translate judo into French | into German | into Italian | into SpanishDefinition of judo
noun

[mass noun]

• a sport of unarmed combat derived from ju-jitsu and intended to train the body and mind. It involves using holds and leverage to unbalance the opponent.

judoist

noun

Origin:
late 19th century: Japanese, from jū 'gentle' + dō 'way'

And so on.

Point is, Dictionaries can be fickle things. And defining Martial Arts as being one name, as oppose to being two words, can cause a blurry definition to arise. And sticking to dictionaries blurs it more and more.
And arent They called Judoka, or was I misinformed? As oppose to Judoist.

And dont a fair few Japenese Systems come from China?




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[Manny]

For me TKD is a martial art in the firsth place and a sport in the second place. For the regular people AND other martial artists like for example karatekas or aikidokas and lima lama and kenpo practiciones TKD is a SPORT wiht traces of martial art.

All the karate senseis or budo taijutsu, or aikido says TKD is only a sport where no punches allowed to face/head and no guard used (very low guard what is insame for them) so TKD is no practical as a self defense tool.

Manny

 

[Twin Fist]

keep it simple:

sport: for competition
martial art: for self defense.

so the answer is either, or both, depending on how it is taught and what is emphasized.

 

[puunui]

keep it simple:

sport: for competition
martial art: for self defense.

keep it even more simple: don't make distinctions between sport competition martial art or self defense, because all of it is taekwondo.

 

[Twin Fist]

not really, it isnt, no.

one is foot boxing and the training neglects the hands

 

[puunui]

one is foot boxing and the training neglects the hands

assuming that is true, so what? It is still taekwondo.

 

[Twin Fist]

obtuse: look it up

tae KWON do

case closed.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

keep it simple:

sport: for competition
martial art: for self defense.

so the answer is either, or both, depending on how it is taught and what is emphasized.

spot on.

 

[Gorilla]

spot on.

and it is all Tkd....sport, SD, breaking, forms... And they are all great!

 

[Gorilla]

assuming that is true, so what? It is still taekwondo.

Welcome back...I hope Master Cole will also start posting again!

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Welcome back...I hope Master Cole will also start posting again!

as long as Master Cole remembers to bring his manners this time or he may disapear very quickly.

 

[Earl Weiss]

keep it even more simple: don't make distinctions between sport competition martial art or self defense, because all of it is taekwondo.

While I undestand there are those who choose to believe that somehow "TKD" is an all encompassing moniker, I am still befuddled by this concept.

Is it anyone who kicks and punches and has some link no matter how small to some korean MA doing "TKD" ?

Is "TKD" like a sandwich? Put anything between 2 slices of bread and that's what you have?

Would those Koreans who developed arts and chose not to use the nam "TKD" be insulted if their system were called "TKD" ?

Is "Tae Bo" "TKD" ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

as long as Master Cole remembers to bring his manners this time or he may disapear very quickly.

Not to point out the obvious, but a comment like this is hypocritical, as itself is bad manners.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

keep it simple:

sport: for competition
martial art: for self defense.

so the answer is either, or both, depending on how it is taught and what is emphasized.

While I like the spirit of your comment, it does raise the question: what about martial arts that are either competition focused and which involve no hand or foot striking whatsoever, such as kendo, judo or BJJ, or arts that have no direct correlation with unarmed self defense, such as pretty much all kenjutsu, iaido, haidong gumdo, or other weapon arts that involve archaic weapons that nobody carries and which involve little to no contact between participants?