Systema Concepts

[ikenpo]

What would you consider to be the main Systema concepts or those that represent an interesting perspective? After watch Gou speak so highly of this system I finally decide to view some of the vids I have. I saw some strange stuff (in a good way) and some unique concepts and other concepts presented in a different way.

The ones I particularly enjoyed were the trinity punch/kick, some of the arm and hand attacks using the fist and elbows, and the shoulder blocks into take downs.

jb:asian:

 

[arnisador]

What is this?

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by arnisador
What is this?

It's when you pull out the bible and whack your opponent when he's not looking.
:hammer:

How's that for an obscure reference?
:ultracool

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
After watch Gou speak so highly of this system I finally decide to view some of the vids I have. I saw some strange stuff (in a good way) and some unique concepts and other concepts presented in a different way.

One thing that I have to say is that this stuff is not new. It's not something that has been hidden away and kept secret. In fact when you actually try it you say to yourself, "I knew that." It's that d@mn simple but people almost can't accept that it is. I never would have thought I could put a fingerlock on a guy with my shoulder from a push. I have seen it done. Heck, don't even make me go into the "scarecrow walk" Vlad had me do. D@mn embarassing and d@mn effective.

The problem is the videos don't do it justice. You have to feel it to really believe. In fact, most people when they see it on video dismiss it. They think people are co operating. They do in a manner. If I don't co operate with the technique I can choose to have my leg broken or my fingers snapped. I usually co operate. Heh.

There are about 10 tennents to the systems that Vlad uses. One of them is not to be concerned how you look. Why? Because you look goofy sometimes. I admit that Kenpoists are one style of martial artists that look kewl when they move. However I often hear, "Paul Mills (Just an example, don't get excited now) moves like the old man(Ed Parker)." That's great but in Systema I hear, "So-and so is effective like Vlad or Misha." To me this is great. I will never move like Ed Parker. I am not a 200 lbs Hawaiian. I have to take Ed Parker's systema and after learning it I have to tailor it to me. The thing is, that a lot of Kenpoists never really do this, they end up looking like like whoever taught them. Now I am learning how I am effective for myself right away through concepts. Instead of using a set technique to teach this we have been doing it with static events. You almost have no choice but to move as only you would and let's face it, sometimes that's goofy. But if it works...well...

Let me say this, I don't think you can compare the two per say without having done both. The are like 2 different vehicles going to the same destination. But they both have an idea of being concept and principle oriented.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by GouRonin



One thing that I have to say is that this stuff is not new. It's not something that has been hidden away and kept secret. In fact when you actually try it you say to yourself, "I knew that." It's that d@mn simple but people almost can't accept that it is. I never would have thought I could put a fingerlock on a guy with my shoulder from a push. I have seen it done. Heck, don't even make me go into the "scarecrow walk" Vlad had me do. D@mn embarassing and d@mn effective.

The problem is the videos don't do it justice. You have to feel it to really believe. In fact, most people when they see it on video dismiss it. They think people are co operating. They do in a manner. If I don't co operate with the technique I can choose to have my leg broken or my fingers snapped. I usually co operate. Heh.

There are about 10 tennents to the systems that Vlad uses. One of them is not to be concerned how you look. Why? Because you look goofy sometimes. I admit that Kenpoists are one style of martial artists that look kewl when they move. However I often hear, "Paul Mills (Just an example, don't get excited now) moves like the old man(Ed Parker)." That's great but in Systema I hear, "So-and so is effective like Vlad or Misha." To me this is great. I will never move like Ed Parker. I am not a 200 lbs Hawaiian. I have to take Ed Parker's systema and after learning it I have to tailor it to me. The thing is, that a lot of Kenpoists never really do this, they end up looking like like whoever taught them. Now I am learning how I am effective for myself right away through concepts. Instead of using a set technique to teach this we have been doing it with static events. You almost have no choice but to move as only you would and let's face it, sometimes that's goofy. But if it works...well...

Let me say this, I don't think you can compare the two per say without having done both. The are like 2 different vehicles going to the same destination. But they both have an idea of being concept and principle oriented.

Whoa Pardner (as we say in Texas),

First let me say. I never mentioned Kenpo in my question. I didn't ask you to validate Systema or tell me why you've moved to this system. I didn't say compare the 2 or anything like that.....at all.

"In fact, most people when they see it on video dismiss it. "

Did I do that????

You see jbKENPO and assume. I'm not here to try to bust your bubble...I'm just trying to learn.

I saw the trinity punch/kick where Vlad would punch and continue with 2 additional strikes with the same hand or kick once and turn it into multiple kicks in the same motion. I liked that concept and have seen it in Kenpo, but his movements were different....I also enjoyed his arm distructions....I didn't mention the scare crow looking stuff because it did look wacked (to me) and I'm not here to criticize. If I don't understand it, it's not my place to put it down.

"But they both have an idea of being concept and principle oriented. "

And that's all I asked, what are some of the concepts and principles...If I didn't value your opinion (sometimes...) I would have let the tapes set up on my shelf for another 6 months.

Man Doug, your normally not so sensitive...

jb :asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Whoa Pardner (as we say in Texas),
First let me say. I never mentioned Kenpo in my question. I didn't ask you to validate Systema or tell me why you've moved to this system. I didn't say compare the 2 or anything like that.....at all. You see jbKENPO and assume. I'm not here to try to bust your bubble...I'm just trying to learn.

I assumed nothing. I was talking from MY point of reference. It had nothing to do actually with you.

I know you never mentioned Kenpo at all. I was more along the lines of free flowing from my own mind as I wrote. I wasn't validating or degrading either system per say, just trying to get across what was in my head and those were the two arts I used.

Originally posted by jbkenpo
"In fact, most people when they see it on video dismiss it. "
Did I do that????

Nope not at all. Again I was not talking about you. I was refering to what most people think when they see the videos. I in no way wanted to infer that this was your reaction.

Originally posted by jbkenpo
I saw the trinity punch/kick where Vlad would punch and continue with 2 additional strikes with the same hand or kick once and turn it into multiple kicks in the same motion. I liked that concept and have seen it in Kenpo, but his movements were different....I also enjoyed his arm distructions....

I know! It looks as wacky in person but man does it work. In slow motion. Real time. Sped up. Works, works, works.
:rofl:

Originally posted by jbkenpo
I didn't mention the scare crow looking stuff because it did look wacked (to me) and I'm not here to criticize. If I don't understand it, it's not my place to put it down.

No. I totally agree. It does look weird. That's why I said you have to feel it. I said that not to justify it but as one guy to another saying, "Man, you gotta try this! **laugh**"

Originally posted by jbkenpo
"But they both have an idea of being concept and principle oriented. "
And that's all I asked, what are some of the concepts and principles...If I didn't value your opinion (sometimes...) I would have let the tapes set up on my shelf for another 6 months.

Yeppers. I spoke with Lee Wedlake about this. He said the first time he saw it he wasn't interested. Then he paid attention to it and was much more interested. Then he got to test it and was really interested.

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Man Doug, your normally not so sensitive...

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S SENSITIVE! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS PICKING ON ME!? LEAVE ME ALONE! WAAAAAAAAH!!!

Heh heh heh... no problem. Not sensitive but merely misunderstood. I was trying to get the info across in an informal way and it didn't come across as I thought it would.

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by GouRonin



YOU'RE THE ONE WHO'S SENSITIVE! WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS PICKING ON ME!? LEAVE ME ALONE! WAAAAAAAAH!!!

Heh heh heh... no problem. Not sensitive but merely misunderstood. I was trying to get the info across in an informal way and it didn't come across as I thought it would.

That's cool,

Ya big wuss. Let me get Ricardo or Billy over here to Kiss and make up with you since they like that kind of stuff....:rofl:

jb

 

[Roland]

I too had three of Vlad's tapes for about 2 years, watched, and laughed at them once, never went back. Weird loking stuff man.
then I got to train it. very differnet then watching, whcih could be said of anything, but this felt damn good.
I personally like the concepts and drills regarding breathing and physical conditioning, plus all the free flow work.
I really enjoy the hitting too, it is very different.
And the good feelings you get when training. The energy afterwards, the "love" so to speak. You must hit each other with good intentions. I think this a hard concept for many, especially in the trend of Adrenal Stress training we see making a bigger come back than ever.
Mmmmm, re-reading that, and little of this really makes sense, unless you have been there. Sorry, wish i could explain better.
Gou does a good job, but even when I know what he is talking about, it just does not fit perfectly. No offense to him of course.

 

[Klondike93]

I thought Gou was just using kenpo as reference from his experience in it.

I agree, you have to actually feel it to believe it. I'm still skepticall of it, so I'm usually getting thumped alot. I see things and have a hard time believing it could be so simple so the instructor does it on me, then I'm a believer.

I think it's concept is smiplicity.


:asian:

 

[migo]

The funniest thing about Systema that I've heard is from Krav Maga guys, they think it takes a really long time to learn.....
(I've never done either).