Systema a discussion

Discussion in 'Russian Martial Arts' started by Gweilo, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    My biggest takeaway from a systema class I did was that instructor couldn’t even defend a half hearted front kick.

    guy asked me to kick him so he could show a move. So I threw a basic front kick. I didn’t throw it full speed and power but I threw it properly at him as that’s how I’ve been taught to attack in demonstrations and the kick landed before he even moved, he told me to do it again so I did same result. Then he told me I was being difficult....well I wasn’t I threw a kick as he asked but I did it again and threw it as slow and weak as I could now because frankly I was embarrassed for the guy so I did it and he caught my leg then then was trying to push it and pull it but it didn’t have any affect on me at all. I wasn’t resisting it but I wasn’t just going to flop down like a dead fish either. In the end he just told me to get back in line and got someone else to demo and funnily enough that guy did flop like a fish....needless to say I never went back
     
  2. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    A point well made, but I am flabergasted, how you came to that conclusion, when you only trained in systema for a couple of hours, its like me taking 4 tkd classes and saying, it has no merit
     
  3. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    Forvthat I am sorry, you went to the wrong class
     
  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Oh that has happened with more than one systema person I know
     
  5. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    May not have trained it loads but I got that Conclusion because I have trained with people who’ve done it and have yet to see anyone who can actually hold their own in a fight Or a sparring match or anything using systema...when I find one that can I’ll let you know but hasn’t happened yet and any class I’ve taken has given me no indication to believe it either. I’ve been to 4 different systema clubs over the years in different countries and each one has been the same format a bunch of rolling around on the floor doing movements and some flow stuff where the partner flops to the floor if I touch his wrist with one finger
     
  6. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    Me too, these names probably mean nothing to you, but I have sparred with Kevin Chan WC, Porl Stone TKD, Niall Adams Hapkido, and a host of Amerian based Hapkidoist, even been taken down b,y Wally Jay in a demonstration (fufing legend), I have been with far better MA,Than I could ever be, but that dont stop me trying,
     
  7. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    So out of interest, would you name these systema people you trained with, or atleast name the city?
     
  8. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    No
     
  9. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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  10. angelariz

    angelariz Yellow Belt

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    I have been attending Systema Seminars off and on for about 10 years. I love the grappling and striking power of the Systema players I have trained with. RI Systema is one of the schools sanctioned by Master Vasiliev. (I know they dont use titles but in my eyes he is a master of movement and self defense.
     
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  11. angelariz

    angelariz Yellow Belt

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    If you arent trained (in the system) in getting your mind on task and staying relaxed in the pocket you wouldnt know how you would react.
     
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  12. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    Whilst there is misunderstanding of systema principles, especially the controlling fear, emotions, I invite to watch the following 2 videos, they are not systema training, but contain some of the principles in our training, the 2 words to remember are, recognising, and adapting, with experience of course.



     
  13. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    This video is also very interesting.

     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It took me about 5 years of hard core street fighting people to be relaxed when someone really wanted to hurt me.

    And even then I had weird triggers that would set me off.

    This was regardless of any training I did.

    And basically I just got really good at pretending I wasn't terrified. Or just going for it when I was.

    This training that people say does something has to result in an actual result. So you can't do amazing relaxed in the face of danger training and then never face danger and then claim the training works.

    To make this claim you need a provable connection between the training and real incidents that link the training to a relaxed mindset during some sort of high risk struggle.

    I think guys like the ice man have a method that at least works as much as it is specific. But a lot of systems never get further than some bold and unproven claims.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    That was terrible.
     
  16. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    5 years of street fighting?......well as I said in a previous thread if someone is getting into multiple street fights regularly...then it’s usually that person that’s the problem
     
  17. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It was 20 years. Just took me 5 to learn to relax.

    And I did it because I needed the money.
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Anyway. The ice man has a method of mental control. The difference is he does what he says he can do.



    Which is an important distinction.
     
  19. Gweilo

    Gweilo Master Black Belt

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    Yeah your right, it was. I think our idea or understanding of the concept being relaxed are not too far apart, but I think the concept of being tension free (relaxed), in Systema goes deeper than that of energy conservation of other arts and the mma training you talk about.
    When you mentioned about someone who has had lots of fights on the street being the problem, I agree, this person will have developed a skill set that is based on experiences that are flawed, ascwe do not know the calibre of their opponents, and confidence and belief in ones ability can be dictated by ones ego. 5 years to become relaxed in a gym sense is about the average from my own experience, and that of others I speak too, but are you more relaxed because of experience, or are you truely able to relax enough to adapt to the unexpected, and execute your reply effectively, becuse the relaxed state we strive for in Systema is mental, as well as physical, a desirable trait for elite military units around the globe, and whilst I am not out blowing up fuel stations or rescuing hostages, being in the right mental and physical state is paramount to dealing with any form of conflict. This is a better vid (promise), but it is about an hour long, and may give you a better understanding of the principles we strive for in Systema.

    123
     

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