Surmounting your limits

Discussion in 'The Locker Room Bar & Grill' started by Jenna, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    When you get to your physical limit, can you overcome that?

    I read people have written no matter how close to your limit physically that can be seen as an artificial mental construct? This is true?? Like people say some time 101% or 110%.. how you overcome what feel like 100% limit? Or that is nonsenses and our physical limit is set in stone for each of us?? Or it is more like a scale with no definitive answer???

    Maybe for your self you would have technique?? or like what is your self-talk to mentally coerce or persuade your self beyond what feel like the stone wall of your physical limit?? thank you <3
     
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  2. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    it depends on which aspect your refering to really, there is an upper limit, but most of us get nowhere near it. A professional runner might spend four years trying to get a quarter of a second of his lap time. Most people would call that a ceiling but they see it differently, they see it as slow improvement.

    and that's the rub, the fitter you become, the harder improvement becomes, the more dedication and effort you need to get to the next step and then the one beyond that.
    then of course there are steroids
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    During live and death situation, our physical limitation will be increased.

    When I was young, one day I was on the horse back. My horse (leased) ran into the woods. There was a cross tree branch that was going to hit on my chest.

    - I pulled my feet off the stirrup,
    - back flipped, and
    - landed back down on the ground.

    I have never trained the "back flip" in my life. I don't think I can ever repeat what had happened that day. I can see it may be possible that I can perform 110% on some skill that I'm good at. But for some skill that I have never trained, it was quite amazing that I could do it that day.
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    that's what adrenaline is for, which is why I'm all ways taken back when people say its the enemy is SD situations
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Depends. There is a physical and a limit. You just keep training both and they get better.
     
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  6. Martial_Kumite

    Martial_Kumite Green Belt

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    My perspective on this is that their is no >100%. As some ones skilles, endurence, stamina, strength, ect, developer it increases how much that 100% is. There is no "Breaking" a limit, simply increasing the limit. Say you are doing pushups, and all that you can do on day x is 10 (I know it is low, just go with it). Well your "100%" = 10 push ups. Then, after developing you are able to 11 push ups. The 100% = 11 now. A "limit" should be seen more as a goal, so I did 11 push ups, the next day I am going to make my "limit" 12, making 100% = 12. If I do <11, then I did not reach my limit and there for did not reach 100%.

    My goal is to never reach 100%. I want to keep pushing my limit so far that I my "100%" is constantly growing, and there for I will never reach my "limit".

    So the short answer is: it depends on what you see as 100%. Is 100% what your body can do, or what you think your body can do. A "limit"/ 100% should always be growing and increasing.

    Hope this makes since.
     
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  7. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Will this mean at some point you physically get to do what you cannot *currently* do?? How do you train this to say this right here today feel like I am training at my limit and but is not my limit, there is another limit I have not reach and can push to? How to get there?? thank you
     
  8. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

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    Yes! make sense yes thank you :) So I can ask you please to use your example if it is ok? So say you do 11 push up then next day you want to get to 12, what happen that day if your PT or coach or teacher or drill sergeant or inner voice or some external circumstance dictate you must to do 20 push up and but your limit for this day @100% is 12.. you just cannot do 20 right?? that be like 166% or some thing unfeasible? is not possible?? or is possible? For you I mean?? Is there a way, or not any way that can happen? thank you
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    We do each have an absolute limit of what we can do at any given moment, but it is not where we think it is. While I hate the "give 110%" expressions, the idea they are meant to convey is valid. The best example is the 4-minute mile. For many years it was thought to be beyond the physical limits of a human. Then Roger Bannister ran a mile in less than 4 minutes, and suddenly others can, too.

    Of course, even the absolute limit can often be moved (that's why I said "at any given moment"). Right now, there's a limit to what I can lift in a bench press. No matter what someone says or what I do, I won't be able to lift more than that absolute limit today. But that limit can be moved. For me, a bit more shoulder rehab will double what I can lift in the full range; after that, exercising near that limit will allow me to push the limit up.

    Part of our training in MA should be (IMO, though that won't necessarily hold for everyone) occasionally pushing our limits. Most people, when they start a running regimen, think they are "done" at some point in their first run, but they can usually actually run a good bit further (if they haven't run too fast). Our bodies have built-in survival cues that tell us to stop before we get near our limits in endurance. Pushing past that point appears to be linked to willpower processes, so it's something we can practice and improve. Every time we "push the limit", even a bit, we improve our ability to push that limit. @drop bear posted something about this in another thread recently, and I suspect it's also part of what makes their 12-week fight prep work in the gym he trains at.

    This is why many seminars work students so hard, why many TMA schools have a few days a year when they work especially hard (I've heard them called "sweat days", "Summer breakthrough days" and many others). For those training seriously and putting in many hours, they should make sure they're pushing the limit on a relatively regular basis. Training 20 hours a week without pushing the limit isn't as useful, IMO, as training 10 hours a week and pushing the limit 4 of those hours.
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    If the person's actual limit - all they can do under normal circumstances is 12, then that's all they can do. Except, of course, with that drill instructor yelling at them, adrenaline may kick in, which changes the limit (note, I said "normal circumstances" before). So 20 may be within the "adrenaline limit", but not within the "normal limit". In actuality, most of us can do more push-ups than we feel (but less than we think - people often claim to do more push-ups than they can actually do, by not doing them full-range). If someone is doing push-ups on their own and can't do the 13th, often just with the bit of motivation from a partner (or the pretty girl they hope is watching), they can push themselves a bit further and do one or two more. If they aren't used to pushing the limit, they may be able to do several more, even when they feel they can't.
     
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  11. Martial_Kumite

    Martial_Kumite Green Belt

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    For me, no it would not be a 166% to do more than my limit. That is the thing about these "limits" that people put on themselves, it is more of what they think they can do instead of just doing it. So, going off the push up example, if I try to increase my 100% = 12 pushups, but the "inner voice", coach, ect is calling me to do more then one of two things is going to happen. Either you will reach your "100%", or what your coaches/ect 100% is. That is why I don't like to do training alone, because what I think to be my 100% could just be 20% of what I can actually do.

    So, back to the push up example. If my 100% =12, yet a external circumstance has me do > 12, then that is a 100% of what I can do. I made my "limit" too small, and having that extra perspective can help make clear what is 100% and what is <100%. My goal was 12, yet I made my goal to small.

    Also, with the sinario that we are working with, I probobly should not have made it so linear. That is a fault on me. When I explain that on x days i can do 10 -> 11-> 12 push ups, it is ment to show that thiere is a growth. A 100%, "limit", goal, whatever you want to call it, should be constantly changing and growing. Otherwise, you will be doing 10% of 100% of what you can actually do.

    Hope this makes scene.
     
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  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You train untill failure. Be it mental failure or physical. It is body building 101 or boot camp 101. Or fight camp 101.

    And your failure point keeps getting further away.

    There is not even really a trick to it. You just keep pushing.

    But ok. Say you do bench press. At some point your arms will not lift that weight. Regardless of how much you want to. Physical limit.

    If you hold a squat or horse stance you basically quit when it hurts too much. Mental limit.
     
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  13. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    but push ups arnt a good choice as an example of improved athletic performance, . This takes us into the thorny issue of how we measure improvements and if we are using a realistic measure of real word performance,,,
    when you start of push up are hard and you are building maximal strengh, but as your body adapts push up go from a strengh exercise to an endurance exercises, to a light endurance exercise, once beyond a certain point say 40, then you can pick any number you want as a target and get there, 100,200,300? and doing them just gets easier and easier, people who continue to develop their push up total may think this is making them fitter, but really its making very very little difference to their fitness development.

    they are just getting better and better at doing push ups, which is only useful if your doing cross fit competition or just showing off, it has very limited cross over to Ma

    they would be better of sticking at 40, and either making them more difficult by hand placement or putting a,clock on it and trying to do them faster and faster. Or both
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  14. Martial_Kumite

    Martial_Kumite Green Belt

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    Push ups were just an example. The point I am trying to make is that 100% should not be stagnent. Your 100% should be constantly changing and growing, otherwise one simply has a well developed 10% when they could be doing so much more.

    I do see the issue with using push ups ( from a technical view), but push ups are universaly known and every one knows what a typical push ups is. It was makes more sence than giving an exersies or example that is less known.

    Thank you for the analysis though.
     
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  15. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    but the point I'm making, is that constantly seeking to improve a body weight ( or weight )exercise by doing additional reps is not a good improver or indicator of athletic( real world ) performance.
    setting such as a target, beyond a certain point, might mean you hit your goal and you may feel a,sense of achievement having reached your 160%,but it is robbing you are of actual physical( real wold) performance.Which is the title of the thread
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't think any of that changes his example, especially since he didn't go beyond 12.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    He wasn't giving exercise advice, he was giving an example. Your response assumes a specific goal, which was not part of the example. Someone may, in fact, wish to be able to do 100 full-range push-ups without stopping. That's not necessarily a fitness goal, any more than climbing a 5-10 wall is.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    well yes his was, he was telling people how to improve performance by working at 110% or what ever silly measure he was using. It's nonsenses' working to failure is 100%, if your haven't fell on your nose you haven't got to 100%, let,alone 110160% or what ever.

    someone may indeed wish o do 100push ups, they should be aware that , that is a goal in its self, that has next to no bearing on physical performance in any other situation than doing push ups.

    I've noticed that people in general and some,Maists, get side tracked into doing exercise that has little bearing on improving their( MA )performance.
    the point of exercise for MA is that it improves your MA performance. You don't find sports men in general wasting their time getting good at exercises that don't improve their tennis or their football or their running, yet it seems rife in ma

    you need to think of yourself as an athlete and design an exercise program accordingly
     
  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    If you push to your limit, you may not feel like to do it next day or the day after. It's better to reach just 80% of your limitation. This way, "you still feel like to do more, but you force yourself not too". You will look forward to do it next day.

    It's always better to reserve 20% of your energy to handle something unexpected. You may need to get into a street fight the moment that you finished your workout in your gym. It will be bad that you are so exhausted that you can't even defend yourself.

    MA is life long training. It's not important how hard that you may push yourself today. It matters whether you will still do this when you are 70 or even 80.

    Try to "enjoy your training" is the key.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  20. Martial_Kumite

    Martial_Kumite Green Belt

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    Ok, taking it from a strictly MA perspective, it can still be used. I don't want to have reached 100% of my MA potential. I want the 100% to be constantly growing. If I reach 100% of my MA potential, then I need to find something els. Something I have missed, something to add to my arsenal, a new perspective, something that causes that 100% to carry more. I learn, I grow, and my limits change, and my 100% will consist of more that somone who dose not expand their 100%.

    Push ups were just used to illustrate. I don't care if they make someone stronger, but the point still stands.

    Limits should be constantly changing and growing. If one has believed to have reached a limit and dose not change, then they are handicapping themselves.
     

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