Surmounting your limits

[jobo]

If you push to your limit, you may not feel like to do it next day or the day after. It's better to reach just 80% of your limitation. This way, "you still feel like to do more, but you force yourself not too". You will look forward to do it next day.

It's always better to reserve 20% of your energy to handle something unexpected. You may need to get into a street fight the moment that you finished your workout in your gym. It will be bad that you are so exhausted that you can't even defend yourself.

MA is life long training. It's not important how hard that you may push yourself today. It matters whether you will still do this when you are 70 or even 80.

Try to "enjoy your training" is the key.

but if and when you get in a,street fight you will only be capable of physical performance at 80% of your potential maximum, you are not going to make any significant improvements in performance coasting through training at 80% effort. That's what i mean about the half hearted Ma attitude to fitness

 

[jobo]

Ok, taking it from a strictly MA perspective, it can still be used. I don't want to have reached 100% of my MA potential. I want the 100% to be constantly growing. If I reach 100% of my MA potential, then I need to find something els. Something I have missed, something to add to my arsenal, a new perspective, something that causes that 100% to carry more. I learn, I grow, and my limits change, and my 100% will consist of more that somone who dose not expand their 100%.

Push ups were just used to illustrate. I don't care if they make someone stronger, but the point still stands.

Limits should be constantly changing and growing. If one has believed to have reached a limit and dose not change, then they are handicapping themselves.

yes and that comes from focusing your training on exercises that directly effect MA performance and working to and( using drop sets techniques) beyond failure, people get side tracked in to adding reps to things when the bodies adaption mechanism has long given up on it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well yes his was, he was telling people how to improve performance by working at 110% or what ever silly measure he was using. It's nonsenses' working to failure is 100%, if your haven't fell on your nose you haven't got to 100%, let,alone 110160% or what ever.

someone may indeed wish o do 100push ups, they should be aware that , that is a goal in its self, that has next to no bearing on physical performance in any other situation than doing push ups.

I've noticed that people in general and some,Maists, get side tracked into doing exercise that has little bearing on improving their( MA )performance.
the point of exercise for MA is that it improves your MA performance. You don't find sports men in general wasting their time getting good at exercises that don't improve their tennis or their football or their running, yet it seems rife in ma

you need to think of yourself as an athlete and design an exercise program accordingly

Yes, he was discussing how one can progress from one point to another. That's not nearly the same as giving fitness advice. It would apply to fitness goals, as to other goals (reading speed, stuffing envelopes, and many other activities). And he actually made the point that it's NOT working at 110% - that's an absolute strawman, so any silliness in that is entirely your own.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you push to your limit, you may not feel like to do it next day or the day after. It's better to reach just 80% of your limitation. This way, "you still feel like to do more, but you force yourself not too". You will look forward to do it next day.

It's always better to reserve 20% of your energy to handle something unexpected. You may need to get into a street fight the moment that you finished your workout in your gym. It will be bad that you are so exhausted that you can't even defend yourself.

MA is life long training. It's not important how hard that you may push yourself today. It matters whether you will still do this when you are 70 or even 80.

Try to "enjoy your training" is the key.

That depends what you're trying to do. For developing strength, 80% will get you there, but 100% at regular intervals will lead to faster development. If we're talking about general training, your statement is absolutely correct. If I go with everything I have during a training session, ending completely wiped out and muscles feeling like jelly, I need some time to recover from that before I can go at any intensity again. If I want to train the next day with any intensity, I need to hold some reserve so I can recover quickly enough.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but if and when you get in a,street fight you will only be capable of physical performance at 80% of your potential maximum, you are not going to make any significant improvements in performance coasting through training at 80% effort. That's what i mean about the half hearted Ma attitude to fitness

Incorrect. If that were true, we'd never be able to lift more than we normally lift. In reality, I can usually lift more than I've lifted in the last month - especially this past month, since I've been recovering from a series of injuries for the last year. My bench press, for instance, is currently kept relatively low (a bit below bodyweight) to allow my shoulder to heal. However, I can tell when I'm lifting that weight that my muscles can push more than that - most likely a lot more if I don't care about the pain in the shoulder for the next week. And that's not accounting for the performance boots from adrenaline.

Your statement assumes that operating at 80% reduces our maximum, so now what was 80% is 100%. If we're actually operating at 80% of normal max, then we have another 20% available even without adrenaline.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes and that comes from focusing your training on exercises that directly effect MA performance and working to and( using drop sets techniques) beyond failure, people get side tracked in to adding reps to things when the bodies adaption mechanism has long given up on it

You're still acting like he said people should do bodyweight pushups. He never made that statement.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

but if and when you get in a,street fight you will only be capable of physical performance at 80% of your potential maximum, you are not going to make any significant improvements in performance coasting through training at 80% effort. That's what i mean about the half hearted Ma attitude to fitness

I prefer to have 1/2 hearted MA attitude for the rest of my life than to have a full hearted MA attitude for just 5 years and quite after that. If you can push yourself 110% and still be able to do it for the next 30 years, you are extremely good.

I still have a huge rock next to my drive way that I used to move around when I was young. I don't do that any more today because I didn't "enjoy" of doing it. That rock is just too much weight for me. I still like to lift up my broken heavy bag over my shoulder because that weight is what I "enjoy" of doing it even today.

 

[jobo]

Incorrect. If that were true, we'd never be able to lift more than we normally lift. In reality, I can usually lift more than I've lifted in the last month - especially this past month, since I've been recovering from a series of injuries for the last year. My bench press, for instance, is currently kept relatively low (a bit below bodyweight) to allow my shoulder to heal. However, I can tell when I'm lifting that weight that my muscles can push more than that - most likely a lot more if I don't care about the pain in the shoulder for the next week. And that's not accounting for the performance boots from adrenaline.

Your statement assumes that operating at 80% reduces our maximum, so now what was 80% is 100%. If we're actually operating at 80% of normal max, then we have another 20% available even without adrenaline.

if you keep lifting at 80% of max, you will soon find that Is your new max, especially at your age

 

[jobo]

I prefer to have 1/2 hearted MA attitude for the rest of my life than to have a full hearted MA attitude for just 5 years and quite after that. If you can push yourself 110% and still be able to do it for the next 30 years, you are extremely good.

I still have a huge rock next to my drive way that I used to move around when I was young. I don't do that any more today because I didn't "enjoy" of doing it. That rock is just too much weight for me. I still like to lift up my broken heavy bag over my shoulder because that weight is what I "enjoy" of doing it even today.

we are back into this 110% nonsense, there no science that's says putting max effort in now ( thats 100% in case you are confused)will mean you can't put 100% effort in 30 years from now,

 

[Jenna]

We do each have an absolute limit of what we can do at any given moment, but it is not where we think it is. While I hate the "give 110%" expressions, the idea they are meant to convey is valid. The best example is the 4-minute mile. For many years it was thought to be beyond the physical limits of a human. Then Roger Bannister ran a mile in less than 4 minutes, and suddenly others can, too.

Of course, even the absolute limit can often be moved (that's why I said "at any given moment"). Right now, there's a limit to what I can lift in a bench press. No matter what someone says or what I do, I won't be able to lift more than that absolute limit today. But that limit can be moved. For me, a bit more shoulder rehab will double what I can lift in the full range; after that, exercising near that limit will allow me to push the limit up.

Part of our training in MA should be (IMO, though that won't necessarily hold for everyone) occasionally pushing our limits. Most people, when they start a running regimen, think they are "done" at some point in their first run, but they can usually actually run a good bit further (if they haven't run too fast). Our bodies have built-in survival cues that tell us to stop before we get near our limits in endurance. Pushing past that point appears to be linked to willpower processes, so it's something we can practice and improve. Every time we "push the limit", even a bit, we improve our ability to push that limit. @drop bear posted something about this in another thread recently, and I suspect it's also part of what makes their 12-week fight prep work in the gym he trains at.

This is why many seminars work students so hard, why many TMA schools have a few days a year when they work especially hard (I've heard them called "sweat days", "Summer breakthrough days" and many others). For those training seriously and putting in many hours, they should make sure they're pushing the limit on a relatively regular basis. Training 20 hours a week without pushing the limit isn't as useful, IMO, as training 10 hours a week and pushing the limit 4 of those hours.

Thank you f or your patient replies! Can you explain what you mean please is willpower processes specifically regarding enduring beyond a limit? Is just like a phrase people say or is a technique or techniques to do this?? thank you

 

[Jenna]

For me, no it would not be a 166% to do more than my limit. That is the thing about these "limits" that people put on themselves, it is more of what they think they can do instead of just doing it. So, going off the push up example, if I try to increase my 100% = 12 pushups, but the "inner voice", coach, ect is calling me to do more then one of two things is going to happen. Either you will reach your "100%", or what your coaches/ect 100% is. That is why I don't like to do training alone, because what I think to be my 100% could just be 20% of what I can actually do.

So, back to the push up example. If my 100% =12, yet a external circumstance has me do > 12, then that is a 100% of what I can do. I made my "limit" too small, and having that extra perspective can help make clear what is 100% and what is <100%. My goal was 12, yet I made my goal to small.

Also, with the sinario that we are working with, I probobly should not have made it so linear. That is a fault on me. When I explain that on x days i can do 10 -> 11-> 12 push ups, it is ment to show that thiere is a growth. A 100%, "limit", goal, whatever you want to call it, should be constantly changing and growing. Otherwise, you will be doing 10% of 100% of what you can actually do.

Hope this makes scene.

Yes I understand thank you.. so if I have this correct in this case the limit was actually >12 only because 12 had been incorrectly assessed as 100% yes? I get that and also it is merely an example of linear gains yes.. Tell me when your body say I cannot do no more reps or lift no heavier kg/lbs or whatever I am at my 100%.. you can override this or not? like if you have to? what I mean is like what feel like an absolute physical limit is that pure physiology or is that pure mental feeling or some combination? how is it overcome? thank you

 

[Jenna]

You train untill failure. Be it mental failure or physical. It is body building 101 or boot camp 101. Or fight camp 101.

And your failure point keeps getting further away.

There is not even really a trick to it. You just keep pushing.

But ok. Say you do bench press. At some point your arms will not lift that weight. Regardless of how much you want to. Physical limit.

If you hold a squat or horse stance you basically quit when it hurts too much. Mental limit.

You have clarified this a deal thank you.. They are generally two separate thing physical and mental limit with out interplay between? Are either set in stone at any given time? thank you!

 

[Jenna]

we are back into this 110% nonsense, there no science that's says putting max effort in now ( thats 100% in case you are confused)will mean you can't put 100% effort in 30 years from now,

I have a question if it is ok and sound like you could answer from experience maybe.. so if a person is accustom to pushing the limit like all the time, what are the chances their effort become less effective against continued further pushes of that limit? I mean like the more they push the limit, the harder it feels the wall they are hitting? Not sure if I am clear enough in that question.. hope so Thank you

 

[Jenna]

It's always better to reserve 20% of your energy to handle something unexpected. You may need to get into a street fight the moment that you finished your workout in your gym. It will be bad that you are so exhausted that you can't even defend yourself.

In this kind of situation, if you really were exhausted from sufficiently hard training at maximum 100% you would still be able to find resource to defend? would that be true? You would not have left your self totally helpless right? Where did that extra resource come from? or it is just normal fight/flight/freeze hormone response? thank you

 

[Martial_Kumite]

Yes I understand thank you.. so if I have this correct in this case the limit was actually >12 only because 12 had been incorrectly assessed as 100% yes? I get that and also it is merely an example of linear gains yes.. Tell me when your body say I cannot do no more reps or lift no heavier kg/lbs or whatever I am at my 100%.. you can override this or not? like if you have to? what I mean is like what feel like an absolute physical limit is that pure physiology or is that pure mental feeling or some combination? how is it overcome? thank you

Well, If I had to depends on the situation. Adrenaline con boost what a person can do depending on if they decide to fight or flight. Some times its voluntary, some times its not. It depends on the situation. But that is life and death type stuff.

I like to think that a smaller version of this is used when assessing a limit. You can either stop, or you can push for one more. There are pros and cons for both cases, but really it depends on what you want to achieve and how determined you are to reach it. The mind, in many cases, will give up before the body dose. This is where a partner, coach, ect can come in handy. They can give you that push that you need to increase your 100%.
So, yes a large amount of it is mental. How determined you are, what you think is 100%, how you persive a situation, and how you view adversity, can effect what 100% can be.

I can not tell you a definite way to over come limits, due to mentality being diffrent per individual. How I do it is I go by my feelings, and my perceived limits. I inch worm it. Little by little. Getting to where something hard become the norm, then adding a little more. Adversity becomes a challenge. I have moments where I need motivation, which is why I prefer to train with partners. It takes time, it takes patience, but it is better than staying at a fake 100%.

Hope this helps.

 

[jobo]

I have a question if it is ok and sound like you could answer from experience maybe.. so if a person is accustom to pushing the limit like all the time, what are the chances their effort become less effective against continued further pushes of that limit? I mean like the more they push the limit, the harder it feels the wall they are hitting? Not sure if I am clear enough in that question.. hope so Thank you

if they keep doing the same exercises, then the effectiveness of the exercise to cause body adaptations drops off after about 12/16 weeks

. So if your after a certain goal, say the ability to run one lap of a track very fast, your progress after that point is very very slow, if at all.if what your doing is running one lap of the track as fast as you can

, if your after a less specific fitness goal, say being stronger, you need to change your exercises regime fundamental, every 3months or so, so that they again challenge both the muscle and the nervous system to cause adaptations

 

[hoshin1600]

The military special forces deal with the concept of limits constantly. The fact is that you will meet the psychological limits of your will long before the limits of the body.
I am not sure but i think it was Bud Day but there is the story of being a POW and was told to hang from a pull up bar and told when he falls off he will be executed. He hung for 3 days before his captors got frustrated and put him back in his cell.
The human muscle can contract strong enough to pull itself off of the bone. Limitations are mostly mental. The limits of the body is the point of damage and shut down.

 

[jobo]

That depends what you're trying to do. For developing strength, 80% will get you there, but 100% at regular intervals will lead to faster development. If we're talking about general training, your statement is absolutely correct. If I go with everything I have during a training session, ending completely wiped out and muscles feeling like jelly, I need some time to recover from that before I can go at any intensity again. If I want to train the next day with any intensity, I need to hold some reserve so I can recover quickly enough.

these % are confusing the issue, . You don't have to lift at a hundreds % of your max, 80% or less of your max is great, but you do have to lift at 100% of your effort. So in round figures, 80%of your one rep max is about 10 reps, or 5 reps very quickly or 5reps very slowly. You mucles doesn't know the difference, only that the nervous system is being overloaded and causing adaptation.
if you mean your lifting 80% of you max at 80% of your effort, your not going anywhere fast

 

[jobo]

The military special forces deal with the concept of limits constantly. The fact is that you will meet the psychological limits of your will long before the limits of the body.
I am not sure but i think it was Bud Day but there is the story of being a POW and was told to hang from a pull up bar and told when he falls off he will be executed. He hung for 3 days before his captors got frustrated and put him back in his cell.
The human muscle can contract strong enough to pull itself off of the bone. Limitations are mostly mental. The limits of the body is the point of damage and shut down.

3DAYS !!! that's nonsense, have you a source for that,

 

[drop bear]

but push ups arnt a good choice as an example of improved athletic performance, . This takes us into the thorny issue of how we measure improvements and if we are using a realistic measure of real word performance,,,
when you start of push up are hard and you are building maximal strengh, but as your body adapts push up go from a strengh exercise to an endurance exercises, to a light endurance exercise, once beyond a certain point say 40, then you can pick any number you want as a target and get there, 100,200,300? and doing them just gets easier and easier, people who continue to develop their push up total may think this is making them fitter, but really its making very very little difference to their fitness development.

they are just getting better and better at doing push ups, which is only useful if your doing cross fit competition or just showing off, it has very limited cross over to Ma

they would be better of sticking at 40, and either making them more difficult by hand placement or putting a,clock on it and trying to do them faster and faster. Or both

I will let mike Tyson know.