Straight lead is this how its done?

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by Towel Snapper, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. Towel Snapper

    Towel Snapper Green Belt

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    1) A simple push off the rear foot

    2) A rotation of the hips (lead foot/toes pointing forward, rear foot rotates to allow hips to spin freely)

    3) A strong grab and upturn of a vertical fist

    (Relaxation of the body shoulder and arm till impact)


    Is that it or is there more to it?


    Is this what Bruce used for his 1 inch etc punch demonstrations? Basically the 1 inch punch was a demonstration of the straight lead at close range? (Kinda showing off how much power I can generate despite having little room to build up speed, rather than a technique to be used in real combat)
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah sounds about right. And move into the middle rather than the blind.
     
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  3. Gung Fu Man

    Gung Fu Man White Belt

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    A couple of more things are involved in this punch. One is that the hand should move before the foot and the other is that the fist should hit the target before the foot touches the ground.. Moving the hand first is the hardest part ( I'm still working on that ) Bruce Lee got this from fencing. This is done because it is harder for the opponent to see the hand moving than the whole body. The fist should hit the target before the foot lands because you want you body weight to transfer into the target before you touch down. You can hit hard without doing this, but much harder with it. If you step down and then punch your power will come from hip rotation and arm strength with and your step only served to move you forward. Another thing is how your fist strikes the target. One way is that after penetrating the target ,you pull it straight back. The other is know as the short arc. With this method, you whip your fist with a shot hooking motion. This puts an extra snap at the end of the punch. The lead punch is much more complicated that many think. It is much more than a jab with the strong hand forward. This is a great weapon to have in your arsenal. Sifu Dan Inosanto has said several times that Bruce Lee knocked him out with this punch the first time they sparred. To me , this punch is like a Samurai sword. The Samurai sword has hundreds of layers of steel and ends up with a simple beautiful piece of steel. This punch, too, has many layers. Too bad so few practice it.
     
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  4. Thunder Foot

    Thunder Foot Purple Belt

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    As already mentioned, that's the gist of it!

    One thing to add is to train your fists. This means not only the small fragile bones of the hand, but also the muscles surrounding like your forearms and wrist. It takes allot of stabilization to be able to transfer all your weight into this punch without breaking your fist. So use caution.
     
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  5. yak sao

    yak sao Master of Arts

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    That is straight out of wing chun. We have a saying..."The hands move before the feet"
     
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  6. Gung Fu Man

    Gung Fu Man White Belt

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    Wall bag training helps with this. Also, aim the punch at opponents nose. The cartiladge provides a softer target. LOL
     
  7. Thunder Foot

    Thunder Foot Purple Belt

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    Snap,
    In terms of the "inch" power, I believe it was more a demonstration to differentiate the mechanics of the WC punch away from other conventional methods. By showing the potential of the WC soft fist and the ability to put your whole body into it, people would come to understand that its different from the norm. That much force within an inch, imagine the full extension. Whipping power that should really be present in all WC & JKD techs, its a property of JKD that was inherited from WC; which I believe inherited it first from Se Kuen (Snake Fist).
     
  8. Argus

    Argus Black Belt

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    In my head!
    I'm a little late to this discussion, but interestingly enough, this concept goes all the way back to very early (medieval) fencing treatises in Western Martial Arts, and I'm sure has been around for a long time across cultures -- especially in systems where weapons are involved.

    The reason behind it -- as I understand it from a fencing context -- is not so much telegraphing, but rather making sure the line is covered and the weapon reaches max extension as (or even just before) your step lands. It can happen -- and is especially prevalent in untrained combatants, that people will move their body into range before while their weapon lags behind, giving the opponent the advantage in timing, and taking much of the potential power out of the weapon. I hadn't actually heard this principle in relation to Wing Chun, but it makes perfect sense. WC is essentially fencing with fists, after all.

    I find that my feet are already slower, and it's hard to keep up with empty hands, though. But, that may just be a lack of training on my part :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
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  9. Orange Lightning

    Orange Lightning Purple Belt

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    I think your feet having a hard time keeping up with your hands in this respect is normal. You hands aren't supporting any weight. Those can pop out and back easy. For the legs to follow, you need some awesome footwork and leg strength, and that synergistic timing with the punch.
    Or at least, that's what I've found. I'm no expert on the straight lead.
     
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The fencing approach is purely for speed. To obtain the maximum speed is the opposite of to obtain the maximum power. For

    - speed, you use your arm to "pull" your body,
    - power, you use your body to "push" your arm.

    IMO, both strategies should be used for different purposes.

    For power generation, according to the 6 harmony principle, your

    - hand should coordinate with your foot.
    - elbow should coordinate with your knee.
    - shoulder should coordinate with your hip.

    Your hand and your foot should

    - start to move at the same time, and also
    - stop at the same time.

    How much should the human body violate the 6 harmony principle? That's can be an interested discussion subject.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
  11. Orange Lightning

    Orange Lightning Purple Belt

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    As far as I understand it, this "fencing" approach we're talking about (where the foot follows the hand and lands after the hand hits) is for power. In the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee says that landing your foot before your hand it like slamming the brake right before maximum impact. The reason is because all your weight is pushing forward into your hand before you put your foot down, at which point your weight distributes to that foot instead of your hand. Which seems to match your description of power generation. "- power, you use your body to "push" your arm. "

    It also matches your description of speed, since the punch snaps out from relatively near the body.

    Compared to this 6 harmony principle you speak of, it's quite different. Although, I would definitely say that it isn't a harmonious method. It's a little off in the way that one part of your body is one step in front of the other. I wouldn't go as far as to say unnatural, but it definitely doesn't come easy. It's difficult thing to execute. Effective though. Fast, powerful, far reaching, non telegraphic, and in effect, simple. (Executing it, not so simple :p) What more could you ask for in a punch? The only negative I can think of is that it's a bit of an investment. Sort of like a leaping side kick, although it's over much quicker.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Do you think both foot landing and punching landing at the same time can generate the same amount of force (if not more)?

    My concern is if your foot has landed but your hand hasn't arrived yet, it may give your opponent a chance to sweep/scoop/kick your landing leg since your hand hasn't reached far enough to protect your territory yet.

    Here is an example. His shoulder push takes his opponent's counter away. If his shoulder push arrives just 1/4 second late, his opponent may be able to escape and counter.

     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  13. Orange Lightning

    Orange Lightning Purple Belt

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    - Well, I wouldn't say that make your foot land after the blow always make a greater transference of force. Hooks for example. You need to be planted to get the best torque. But in the case of the straight lead, it definitely seems like the most possible power can be attained by the foot landing after the hand delivers.

    - Um...Ok? I don't know of anything that advocates landing with the foot on purpose before delivering the technique. It's either technique first followed by the feet, or simultaneously. Because -
    [/QUOTE]
     
  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Boxers also train "punch hit" and "foot landing" at the same time.

    At 1.00 - 1.47. You pick up your foot when you throw a punch. Your foot make contact on the ground (foot landing) as you fully extend your punch (punch hit).

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
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  15. Orange Lightning

    Orange Lightning Purple Belt

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    Sorry. Can't watch. Out of bandwidth.
     
  16. TMA17

    TMA17 Brown Belt

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    I really like the JKD punch. I think of all the punches out there, this is becoming my favorite as I work on it. The timing is what is most difficult. I'm also working on my chain punches.

     

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