statue of the crane

[marlon]

The balance i have learned morte involved taking the opponents balance from them rather than delivering a stop hit from one leg, although strikes from one leg in forms i usually interpret as a message to put most of your wieght in that direction and not necessarily to stand on one leg. The one leg thingy in the form serves to remind me of the concept of balance and using it as a weapon and also quick escapes and return force being associated concepts in terms of movement and fighting.

Respectfully,
marlon

 

[bujuts]

The balance i have learned morte involved taking the opponents balance from them rather than delivering a stop hit from one leg, although strikes from one leg in forms i usually interpret as a message to put most of your wieght in that direction and not necessarily to stand on one leg. The one leg thingy in the form serves to remind me of the concept of balance and using it as a weapon and also quick escapes and return force being associated concepts in terms of movement and fighting.

Respectfully,
marlon

Yes, often when performing that kata I would find myself creating a line of gravity into the attack, than trying to come truly into balance, much the way we do kicks in AK. I recall that when working application on that particular stance, I would train it as a knee strike while moving in, despite the kata moving away from the attack. Disparity between form / practice and function / application - one of my only peaves with some classical training methods.

Cheers, thanks for the dialogue.

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hi folks!
I was looking at this thread and decided to add some information.
When I started with the original USSD chain owned by Fred Villari, the form was known as "Statue of the crane". The form was called that because of the "freezing like a statue" in the crane stance [one legged stance]{"sagi ashi dachi"}<okinawan/japanese> that is a prevalent feature of the form/kata. I have seen various sources list it as "stature" or "Statute" of the crane and have simply written it off as a printing error or a misspelled word in a manual of a high ranking individual mispronouncing a particular word. However, the form is known as Statue of the Crane. It has been stated that the form was from the Tomori Ryu and is known as "Rohai" ("crane on a rock"). Again, an image of a crance poised [in a pose] standing upon a rock,looking like a statue, one in harmony with the surface it stands upon,appearing to be a statue carved from the stone that it stands on.
I have seen this form performed many times over the years and I'm sadened when i see subtle elements of the kata deleted as people stray further from the original source of the form itself. Aspects such as not going to "hidden fist"/"cup and saucer" position after doing the downward x block/"crossed crane wings" position,not using the proper "hopping" of the crane feet then locking into the crance stance to show proper balance. Although a relative short kata, it has many difficulty factors that make for a challenging kata to perform.
Such as:
1.cross wing-hidden fist
2.chain punch
3triple hops
4.upward/downward simultaneous open hand blocks in crane stance
5. "hidden hand" knife hand/spear hand
6.triple front two knuckle punches
7.inside crescent kick w/ sandwiching palm to kneeling position [running man stance/close kneel/unicorn stance] w/F.2.K
8.U- punch [taught in "destructive Twins" for those of you from EPAK]
9. chain hands to hidden hand position.
When done correctly, the form is a truly beautiful kata and it's always been one of my favorite forms that I still perform and it's simply stated, a form that really sticks out as being "different" from the rest of the curriculum. In a phone call I had with Walter Godin in 1998 he mentioned that it he who "added" that particuler kata into the Karazenpo goshinjutsu system. I'm satill researching that information.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hi folks,
BTW, does anyone know what happened to "rachel" who was studying "Shaolin Kempo" in Conn.? I thought she got her black belt but wasn't sure...
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

 

[marlon]

Hello Kenpojoe,
hope all is well. I have not heard the term chain punch, could ou explain it, please? BTW the form was taught to me very much as you described by Elizabeth Gilberg who learnedit from Cal Carozzi i think...and i continue to teach it this way.
Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[CTKempo Todd]

Hi KenpoJoe,

I have heard alot about you. (Don't worry all good) from Jesse Dwyer and Matt Barnes..

As far as Stature/Statue of the Crane I learned it as Statue and my instructor Prof Ingargiola calls is Stature..Either way, its the same form.

Agreed with everything you said in the form. Sometimes I watch it being performed and is seems people are just hopping around without really showing or understanding what they are doing.

Like Marlon, I never heard the term chain punch, but in thinking about the form I assume you mean the multiple instances where 3 punches are thrown in succession. (Hopefully you'll confirm)

I am hoping to meet you at East Meets West Seminar this month.

Thanks
Todd Guay
CT Kempo

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hi KenpoJoe,

I have heard alot about you. (Don't worry all good) from Jesse Dwyer and Matt Barnes..

As far as Stature/Statue of the Crane I learned it as Statue and my instructor Prof Ingargiola calls is Stature..Either way, its the same form.

Agreed with everything you said in the form. Sometimes I watch it being performed and is seems people are just hopping around without really showing or understanding what they are doing.

Like Marlon, I never heard the term chain punch, but in thinking about the form I assume you mean the multiple instances where 3 punches are thrown in succession. (Hopefully you'll confirm)

I am hoping to meet you at East Meets West Seminar this month.

Thanks
Todd Guay
CT Kempo

Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[CTKempo Todd]

Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Ok Thanks..The chain punch makes sense (Launched from the cup and saucer)

Prof Ingargiola indicated in an email to me this morning that he will be attending the East/West Seminar as I see you are. Please introduce yourself if I don't notice you first. (CT Kempo is on my logo/Gi/patch)

As far as Prof I, if you go to his website, (www.shaolinkempo.com) and look at his Blue belt requirements you'll see it listed as Stature.

I'd like to work with you in the future if possible.

 

[marlon]

Thanks for the info Kenpojoe,
i missed you last time in Lowell, i hope to meet with you in person finally at the east meets west. Perhaps i can show you Staute and you can pick apart where i can improve
Be well
Respectfully,
Marlon

Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[melj7077]

Statue of the Crane used to be a favorite form of mine. It apparently derives from the kata Rohai (Vision of White Heron is the translation I have). I do see similiarities. Sometimes Rohai is called Matsumora Rohai denoting a particular version. If you want to see the form Rohai go to www.shitokai.com/movies.

 

[bill007]

Statue of the Crane used to be a favorite form of mine. It apparently derives from the kata Rohai (Vision of White Heron is the translation I have). I do see similiarities. Sometimes Rohai is called Matsumora Rohai denoting a particular version. If you want to see the form Rohai go to www.shitokai.com/movies.

I can't see the video it's says, not authorized to view this page bla bla bla... do you have another link?

Bill

 

[crushing]

I can't see the video it's says, not authorized to view this page bla bla bla... do you have another link?

Bill

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

 

[bill007]

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

Thanks, nice to see the original form.

 

[shodan_spike]

I know STATUE of the Crane (well, that's how it was always said in my studio), but our student manual listed it as Stature of the Crane....interesting.

I am a former USSD student, so I don't know how different it is from other sub-systems, but I've heard it's a bit different.

I learned the form many years ago and remember it for the most part, especially the jumping and multiple punches parts of it...overall a very cool form and one of my favorites, looking back.

If you ever learn this form, don't forget it! It may be a good form to use in a demo or competition...

 

[Gentle Fist]

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

Some clean looking forms on there.

 

[Gufbal1982]

If you can get a copy of the USSD Student Manual it's in there under the green belt requirements, plus I'm almost positive you can it a copy of it on E-bay by purchasing the green belt video...or, get the Fred Villari belt requirements DVD set...it's on there as well.

 

[SK101]

United Studios of Self Defense has a paperback handbook out that has this form amongst others, broken down pretty clearly and easy to learn. The book is not cheap though. Nick Cerio's Kenpo also has the NCK version in their 'Master's Text', again, it's done pretty well and easy to pick up. NCK version has been altered from Shaolin Kempo but still pretty close. Both have been radically altered from Rohai but the commonality with the Okinawan original is sequences of threes. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

Check for the USSD manual on Ebay. It comes up often, but I don't know what people usually ask for it.

 

[Jdokan]

Hello Kenpojoe,
hope all is well. I have not heard the term chain punch, could ou explain it, please? BTW the form was taught to me very much as you described by Elizabeth Gilberg who learnedit from Cal Carozzi i think...and i continue to teach it this way.
Respectfully,
Marlon

Marlon I have read many posts recently (being new here) & finally I see a very familiar name...Liz...Liz and I worked out many nights, back in the old Peabody days...As I interpret this...she was your instructor??? She was a good black belt you were lucky to train with her.....Anyways I have seen this form morph over the years...Great form no matter how it is done...

 

[marlon]

Marlon I have read many posts recently (being new here) & finally I see a very familiar name...Liz...Liz and I worked out many nights, back in the old Peabody days...As I interpret this...she was your instructor??? She was a good black belt you were lucky to train with her.....Anyways I have seen this form morph over the years...Great form no matter how it is done...

Yes she was a great instructor... my first sk instructor. tough as nails.she does not teach anymore. Actually, she is the one who taught me the form.

Marlon

 

[Jdokan]

We've taken the original form that I learned back in the "old" USSD days that I got at green belt which was a very flowy (SP??) flashy form. Thought of as a balance learning form that was great to do for a tournament and have modified it into a fighting form. We've shorten the time spent jumping from high leggy type jumps into lower faster type movements...Where we used to be in a side stance turned at a right angle to the opponent to a slightly angled position and incorporated it into an "Angry Crane"...(Sorry that's how I visualize it). I still use/teach the hidden hand postures, etc...just modified some of the angles. There are more hand strikes now than when I learned it but that's ok...They fit, make sense and don't distract from the forms overall flow....