Sparring someone with their knee up :)

[Buka]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the very limited rules in this particular case. Only hits below the neck and above the waist were allowed, and only kicks *near* the head were allowed but not contact to the head. No hits to the legs, back, or face. And no safety gear was worn for this particular exercise.

You're bound by the rules that are presented to you. Keep at it, you'll get better as you gain experience.

But with those kind of rules it's easier to just write rather than spar.

 

[drop bear]

Below the waist meaning groin, hips, legs, etc., not literally below the waist.

I can hit that when someone leaves a thai check up to long.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the very limited rules in this particular case. Only hits below the neck and above the waist were allowed, and only kicks *near* the head were allowed but not contact to the head. No hits to the legs, back, or face. And no safety gear was worn for this particular exercise.

Therein lies a rule interpretation issue and one of the reasons for our rules while a kick below the waist is a foul, if the kick contacts the opponent's leg at a point where the leg is raised above their waist - no foul.

 

[wab25]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the very limited rules in this particular case. Only hits below the neck and above the waist were allowed, and only kicks *near* the head were allowed but not contact to the head. No hits to the legs, back, or face. And no safety gear was worn for this particular exercise.

Are you in competition or just sparring with your class?

If sparring with your class... try to beat his kick. Shoot straight in. (for me, in Karate, I would throw a straight punch to beat the kick.... maybe with your rules you need to throw a straight kick....) Sure, the other guy is going to get a lot of points. But, in trying to get there, you should be getting faster at your straight in attacks. You will start learning to get offline just enough as you come straight in. You will start getting really good at seeing his kick start, so that you can pick it up sooner. You can start trying to set up your straight in attack, I like the circling mentioned above, but there are other ways to set up your straight in attack to beat his kick.

Sparring in class is for you to learn, to get better, and to try different things... winning is for competition. The reality is that this guy may catch you with his kick most of the time... he is learning your movements as well. But, against someone else, you will now be much faster. Those set ups will work better, as they have not seen you working on them as you are learning them,,, they only get to see the final product.

The thing is, too many people spar to win, instead of spar to learn and improve. If this is in class, no harm in trying to out quick the quick guy. All it will do is make you faster. Hopefully, if you do this learning and improving in sparring, when you show up to the competition, you will have options, you will be faster, and you should pick up on what the other guy is doing faster.

 

[marvin8]

Move inside the leg, place your lead leg behind their supporting leg and give them a little push.
Move inside the leg and strike with the hand technique of your choice.

Most of these are not allowed in most instances of Taekwondo point sparring (or most point-based sparring systems).

The two I highlighted in bold are. However, you also run the risk of them simply scoring on you while you try to move inside. This is a great risk because they're already chambered to strike, and at this point just need to flick their foot out. If their check kick game is on point, this is going to be incredibly difficult.

This? Hip sweep: Works best when opponent is stationary or moving forward. Make a wide circle while taking two steps (switch and regular) to build momentum and get behind..

Kevin Lee
May 20, 2023

Finally I get to ask Jeff from @MMAShredded about his favorite sweep! We have done a video previous with a similar technique from Capoeira. But today, Jeff is gonna show off his version with his setup and exit strike!

 

[drop bear]

There is a thing to deal with taller fighters (boxing, kickboxing)where I will engage in a fake distance and then back off to bait the person forward.

Then as they come forward. I come forward and close that gap a little easier.

But it relies on a bit of patience and finesse.

 

[a.v]

While I am primarily a practitioner of Tae Kwon Do (not ITF nor WTF, but still with relations to the World TKD Alliance)
I am not the biggest fan of point sparring unless the intent is to play.

My basics and general understanding of self-defense, introduced to me by my Seniors, was fixated on finding the fastest way to resolve a conflict.

"Train how you fight" (although where possible, apply "Train harder than you fight")
Given this, I feel that point sparring and complying with rules can cause natural, sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit.
Hence, this nature can disturb the destructive nature of any style.

 

[Earl Weiss]

While I am primarily a practitioner of Tae Kwon Do (not ITF nor WTF, but still with relations to the World TKD Alliance)
I am not the biggest fan of point sparring unless the intent is to play.

My basics and general understanding of self-defense, introduced to me by my Seniors, was fixated on finding the fastest way to resolve a conflict.

"Train how you fight" (although where possible, apply "Train harder than you fight")
Given this, I feel that point sparring and complying with rules can cause natural, sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit.
Hence, this nature can disturb the destructive nature of any style.

Does the school system you train with use any type of "Sparring"?

 

[_Simon_]

Sparring with knee up..... if do right...

... no can defend.

 

[_Simon_]

PS. I actually found a pic of Chuck sparring with his knee up, but purposely chose one of him sitting down, as he'd 100% be more deadly sitting.

 

[skribs]

This? Hip sweep: Works best when opponent is stationary or moving forward. Make a wide circle while taking two steps (switch and regular) to build momentum and get behind..

In most instances of TKD sparring, that technique is a blatant infraction of the rules.

I'm not saying anything about the quality of the technique. It's just simple not allowed.

Given this, I feel that point sparring and complying with rules can cause natural, sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit.

Given the number of BJJ fighters who have actually put troublemakers to sleep, I doubt it.

 

[a.v]

Does the school system you train with use any type of "Sparring"?

Yes, we do.

I believe sparring is important to train aspects of hand to hand combat, therefore it is often incorporated into each class.
Typically seniors will spar controlled contact without protection, but once a month we'll do short bouts of full contact with protection.
We get injuries, which is why it helps when most members are capable first aiders with exceptional understanding of anatomy.
If possible, it's always good to have either a qualified, retired, or trainee paramedic in the class.

My issue with point sparring concerns the lack of effectivity.
From my experience, the touch-point nature encourages quick, light strikes which can be good when applied,
but paired with the massive targets results in worse accuracy, less consideration of force and weapon.
Point sparring also penalizes grabbing or grappling, which is another point I do not agree with.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Even point sparring is useful. You learn how to manage range and distance and read an opponent.

I think it's useful so long as it doesn't degrade into a game of tag. Managing the range to get in the techniques is different than managing the range to not be touched. In some caused being close is the range that you want to be in. Me vs a good kicker like TKD would require that I stay close enough to smother the kicks and to reduce the time needed to kick. This approach would not be beneficial to me in a point sparring match that is more like tag.

Managing the distance sometime means staying close instead of saying far.

This? Hip sweep: Works best when opponent is stationary or moving forward. Make a wide circle while taking two steps (switch and regular) to build momentum and get behind..

Kevin Lee
May 20, 2023

Finally I get to ask Jeff from @MMAShredded about his favorite sweep! We have done a video previous with a similar technique from Capoeira. But today, Jeff is gonna show off his version with his setup and exit strike!

I like this video. I like the discussion about the set up for it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

While I am primarily a practitioner of Tae Kwon Do (not ITF nor WTF, but still with relations to the World TKD Alliance)
I am not the biggest fan of point sparring unless the intent is to play.

My basics and general understanding of self-defense, introduced to me by my Seniors, was fixated on finding the fastest way to resolve a conflict.

"Train how you fight" (although where possible, apply "Train harder than you fight")
Given this, I feel that point sparring and complying with rules can cause natural, sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit.
Hence, this nature can disturb the destructive nature of any style.

Point sparring isn't what it used to be back in the 70's and 80's. When I took karate as a kid, I remember that we were allowed to go hard enough to get the wind knocked out, and the punches and kicks had to be effective strikes that can deliver power. The hopping on one leg stuff or holding one leg up wasn't allowed.

 

[isshinryuronin]

If the opponent has guard with a knee up, I'd do one of three things: If I suspect he is not a skilled kicker with that leg I will charge in, stuff it and attack with punches as close range.

The other thing that would work is to circle the opponent. It's hard to turn around on one leg. If attempted it will likely put him off balance. Otherwise, he will put the leg down to better track me.

The third tactic will be to present an opening to entice him to attack and change position. No problem.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The other thing that would work is to circle the opponent.

You can also just wait to see how long that he can stand on single leg.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes, we do.

I believe sparring is important to train aspects of hand to hand combat, therefore it is often incorporated into each class.
Typically seniors will spar controlled contact without protection, but once a month we'll do short bouts of full contact with protection.
We get injuries, which is why it helps when most members are capable first aiders with exceptional understanding of anatomy.
If possible, it's always good to have either a qualified, retired, or trainee paramedic in the class.

My issue with point sparring concerns the lack of effectivity.
From my experience, the touch-point nature encourages quick, light strikes which can be good when applied,
but paired with the massive targets results in worse accuracy, less consideration of force and weapon.
Point sparring also penalizes grabbing or grappling, which is another point I do not agree with.

Do you allow Eye pokes, Groin Strikes, biting, and similar ?

 

[skribs]

Do you allow Eye pokes, Groin Strikes, biting, and similar ?

There are schools that don't?
/s

 

[a.v]

I think it's useful so long as it doesn't degrade into a game of tag. Managing the range to get in the techniques is different than managing the range to not be touched. In some caused being close is the range that you want to be in. Me vs a good kicker like TKD would require that I stay close enough to smother the kicks and to reduce the time needed to kick. This approach would not be beneficial to me in a point sparring match that is more like tag.

Managing the distance sometime means staying close instead of saying far.


I like this video. I like the discussion about the set up for it.

Point sparring isn't what it used to be back in the 70's and 80's. When I took karate as a kid, I remember that we were allowed to go hard enough to get the wind knocked out, and the punches and kicks had to be effective strikes that can deliver power. The hopping on one leg stuff or holding one leg up wasn't allowed.

I like these responses.
Your analogy of tag is awesome, and the distance factor definitely rings true.
Late 60s to early 90s was kinda the golden age for martial arts - those old spars involved much more technical understanding in comparison to modern ones.
Teaching styles across the board were more regimented and disciplined as most styles had been further developed by the military as a result of war.
There are some awesome, awesome videos around from that era.

 

[Earl Weiss]

There are schools that don't?
/s

If they have rules that don't allow them I want to understand how that works with the earlier comment (#27) since the fastest way to resolve a conflict can easily involve groin strikes, eye pokes and biting. Many MMA fights are "Stopped" due to the Groin Shot or the eye poke. Not allowing them would lead to the same "
"sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit"

:

a.v said:
My basics and general understanding of self-defense, introduced to me by my Seniors, was fixated on finding the fastest way to resolve a conflict.

"Train how you fight" (although where possible, apply "Train harder than you fight")
Given this, I feel that point sparring and complying with rules can cause natural, sub-conscious restrictions as a result of habit.
Hence, this nature can disturb the destructive nature of any style.