Sparring and Belts

[Master of Blades]

My instructors Hapkido class believed that your only gonna get better by fighting the best. For this very reason they did not pay much attention to placing the Green Belts with the Green Belts and the Blacks with Blacks etc. The only belts that were placed together were the White Belts because this was a full contact class and the Black Belts tended to get slightly carried away. They believed that by making the lower belts spar the Blacks and Reds that they would learn to be more aware. The also felt that by the Blacks sparring the lower belts that the Blacks would learn to expect the unexpected. But is this really a good way of learning? Should Blacks mainly spar someone of there own skill and level? And the same with the rest of the Belts.....

In some cases it can be a bad thing...It might cause Lazyness on the Black Belts behalf because they (Should) be able to destroy the lower belts. I also think it might scare away the lower belts....having to spar the Black Belts or Reds etc. Then again I guess this is just survival of the Fittest.......What do you guys think? :asian:

 

[ace]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
My instructors Hapkido class believed that your only gonna get better by fighting the best. For this very reason they did not pay much attention to placing the Green Belts with the Green Belts and the Blacks with Blacks etc. The only belts that were placed together were the White Belts because this was a full contact class and the Black Belts tended to get slightly carried away. They believed that by making the lower belts spar the Blacks and Reds that they would learn to be more aware. The also felt that by the Blacks sparring the lower belts that the Blacks would learn to expect the unexpected. But is this really a good way of learning? Should Blacks mainly spar someone of there own skill and level? And the same with the rest of the Belts.....

In some cases it can be a bad thing...It might cause Lazyness on the Black Belts behalf because they (Should) be able to destroy the lower belts. I also think it might scare away the lower belts....having to spar the Black Belts or Reds etc. Then again I guess this is just survival of the Fittest.......What do you guys think? :asian:

I say the White Belt can be the Most Dangerous Person in The Classs.
Not only don't we no what they are going to, most of the time
neither do they.


Then There are those rare few were they are a White
Belt to The Martial Arts But have Been Wrestling or boxing
since they were 6.

My thoughts are never under estamate a person
Who is willing to pay for Abuse.

Another thing i was thought is a Black Belt
is a white Belt Who never Quit.

 

[FLY]

Originally posted by ace
Another thing i was thought is a Black Belt
is a white Belt Who never Quit.

heh...I like that

FLY.
:asian:

 

[RCastillo]

It all falls on the Instructor to maintain proper balance in class.

Sparring in many respects should be a time for learning, and if those BB are working with the Greens, they should be instructing them as well when they fight. The last thing you want to do is run off those Greens. They are not there to be bait for higher rank.

Sure, they should push each other some, but control /safety are paramount here.:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

my perspective...

white and yellow belts should spar black belts. these folks are dangerous. lol.

orange belts should spar purple belts...
purple belts should spar green belts
green belts should spar brown belts
and brown belts should spar black belts.

Its an educational technique pioneered by a guy named Vygotsky, called "scaffolding" the idea is to work with someone who's just a little better at it than you are, because its easier to learn from them, because they're closer to your level.

when a white belt spars a black belt, it should be more of a lesson rather than a match.

when colored belts spar nobody but black belts, they're never gonna improve... because the black belts know so much more, that the lower belts are never gonna figure out what the heck the black belts are doing.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by ace
I say the White Belt can be the Most Dangerous Person in The Classs.
Not only don't we no what they are going to, most of the time
neither do they.


Then There are those rare few were they are a White
Belt to The Martial Arts But have Been Wrestling or boxing
since they were 6.

My thoughts are never under estamate a person
Who is willing to pay for Abuse.

Another thing i was thought is a Black Belt
is a white Belt Who never Quit.

Is it me or did Ace write more then two lines

Nah, I do agree about the Black Belt white Belt quitting thing.....very cool......who'd ya steal it off Ace?

 

[ace]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Is it me or did Ace write more then two lines

Nah, I do agree about the Black Belt white Belt quitting thing.....very cool......who'd ya steal it off Ace?

Burton Richardson
And Yes i did Write a bit didn't i
This Should make up for it

 

[theletch1]

I don't think it's a bad idea to have BB sparring white belts if the BB remember that they are now in a position to teach. If a black goes in, destroys the white and walks away then there is a problem. For that matter, we are all students within an art and each of us has the potential to teach as well so don't we each, regardless of belt level, have the responsibilty of teaching/learning from each other?

Great idea with the scaffolding. I'll have to bring that up to my sifu.

respecfully,
theletch1:asian:

 

[Disco]

The first person a white belt should fight / spar with should be a black belt, for two reasons.
( I preface these remarks with a given understanding that the school, main instructor and black belts within the school are true martial artists and have displaced their ego's in order to teach).

1. The black belt has (should have) control or therefor will / should not harm the white belt.
2. It servers as good training for the black belt for now they must deal with the unexpected.

Of course, the teaching aspect always should be present. This formula can be followed until the white becomes a yellow or whatever the next rank color is. When at that new level, then you spar with your current level rank and the next higher level rank.

You would be surprised at how quickly the white belts start to learn and advance when this criteria is followed. Their foundation becomes solid.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by ace
Burton Richardson
And Yes i did Write a bit didn't i
This Should make up for it

Good to have you back.....you werent yourself there for minute Acey

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Disco
The first person a white belt should fight / spar with should be a black belt, for two reasons.
( I preface these remarks with a given understanding that the school, main instructor and black belts within the school are true martial artists and have displaced their ego's in order to teach).

1. The black belt has (should have) control or therefor will / should not harm the white belt.
2. It servers as good training for the black belt for now they must deal with the unexpected.

Of course, the teaching aspect always should be present. This formula can be followed until the white becomes a yellow or whatever the next rank color is. When at that new level, then you spar with your current level rank and the next higher level rank.

You would be surprised at how quickly the white belts start to learn and advance when this criteria is followed. Their foundation becomes solid.

Exactly!

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by RCastillo
It all falls on the Instructor to maintain proper balance in class.

Sparring in many respects should be a time for learning, and if those BB are working with the Greens, they should be instructing them as well when they fight. The last thing you want to do is run off those Greens. They are not there to be bait for higher rank.

Sure, they should push each other some, but control /safety are paramount here.:asian:

I like your take and advice on this topic Mr. Castillo. You must be an instructor huh?

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
I like your take and advice on this topic Mr. Castillo. You must be an instructor huh?

Thank You Sir, I am, but am surrounded by Hostile AK Kenpo Forces!

 

[Old Warrior]

"I say the White Belt can be the Most Dangerous Person in The Classs.
Not only don't we no what they are going to, most of the time
neither do they."

In 1967 I was a white belt and ordered to fight a brown belt. At the time we did "point" karate and contact to the face was absolutely not allowed and only light contact was permitted elsewhere.

The brown belt stepped forward - I moved back.
The brown belt stepped forward - I moved back.
The brown belt stepped forward - I moved back.

When I felt the wall at my back I came forward with the kind of force and speed that only insane terror could provide. My reverse punch broke his nose. He was a cop and went for his handcuffs to arrest me (this is absoltutely true). The sensei told him "it's not his fault, it's yours. He's been doing this 3 months and you can't block a straight punch from a beginner".

30+ years later I see the incident as an irresponsible act of a wise guy sensei. He wanted a show and he got one.

Personally, I think the sensei had a screw loose. I know he enjoyed the incident. He figured he had a gamer as an up and coming student. The reality - I was in a pure self defense mode, I felt my life was at stake. I was out of control, not thinking and there was very little reflection of any martial arts training.

 

[RCastillo]

Some of those old timers liked that hard raw stuff. He also shoulda been more responsible as you say. The Handcuffs? I'm not surprised one bit.

Morale of the story: Never back up a white belt to the wall!

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by RCastillo
Thank You Sir, I am, but am surrounded by Hostile AK Kenpo Forces!

You are not!! Quit talking that garbage.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
You are not!! Quit talking that garbage.

Oh, I forgot, I'm related to you guys. The UNwanted cousin.

 

[Quick Sand]

Sometimes there's not much choice but to mix ranks. I'm in a pretty small club at a university. We don't allow white belts to spar, only yellow belt and higher. Of the rest of the ranks (yellow, green, blue, purple, brown, black) We have about 4 or 5 yellow belts that come regularily, there are two of us at green but the other guy comes very rarely, 5 or 6 blue belts, 2 purple belts (only one ever comes), one brown belt and our instructor is a black belt but he never spars. He monitors everything.

If we didn't mix ranks then there would be 3 of us that could never spar. We spar among all ranks just because of the small numbers of us. Even if we used the scaffolding the yellow belts could only spar me and the purple and brown belt would only ever spar each other. I think it probably also makes a difference that we don't allow white belts though.

The higher belts are really good a toning things down when sparring yellow belts and stuff too, so that helps a lot.

 

[sweeper]

I tihnk it deppends on your view of sparring, if you treat sparring like an all out competition all the time, low ranks fighting high ranks is just gona get low ranks hurt. But if you treat it like any other aspect of training, you let the higher ranks use it as a media to teach, than it's realy good to have higher ranks spar lower ranks, it alows for one on one info in a very direct and active way. I think the times I have improved the most have been when sparring people alot better than me.

Now if you just want to go as an all out fight, than the scaffolding thing nightingale brought up will probably better.

Also if all BBs ever spar are people less skilled than them then they won't improve and they may get sloppy, so they have to spar each other also

 

[Nightingale]

the ideal method is probably a combination of everything you just said.