Someone explain the technical differences in these branches

[coxscorner]

Hey all. I have a background in chinese kempo, Okinawan Ryu Kyu Kempo, Aiki-Ju-jitsu (did these for about 10 years) and also have done the JKD seminar circuit a few times after this. The last few years I have gotten married, have a baby and have been inactive in MA. One of my close friends who lives on the East Coast is a former amateur boxer with a 56-2 record has started in Wing Chun and I always liked the WC side of JKD and would like to get into it a little more. My friend is doing Traditional Wing Chun (Cheung) branch and the only school in my area is Leung Ting branch. The closest Wong Shun Leung branch I think is Chicago which is a 3 hour drive one way for me and that is not reasonable for me to attend.

My question is this: Without getting into politics and lineage arguments that I care nothing about, can someone explain the technical differences between these 3 branches, e.g. TWC, WSL WC and Leung Ting Ving Tsun. Based on what my friend says TWC seems to be about attacking the blindside and controlling the elbow. What is Leung Ting's philosphy? I went to one free class introductory class so far and it seems they put a lot of weight on the back leg like in bare knuckle boxing and some Karate styles. Anyone know a little more about it care to comment.
Constructive comments only please.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Coxscorner, any replies you get are going to be opinion because most Wing Chun pratitioners don't mix and match the lineages. I could tell you what I think is the main differences, but it would most likely not be true. All this would be based off what we see in online videos or dvd's the various lineages produce. And most of the time, that is not a real representation of how they use the art.

Years ago, I had a gung fu brother go to a William Cheung Sifu seminar somewhere near Boston. At the time, we were doing Wing Chun derived from Moy Yat Sifu Wing Chun (our sifu was a student of Moy Yat). After attending the seminar, he came home and stated what they were doing was no different from our Wing Chun except they didn't use the Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma stance (pigeon toe stance). I think William Cheung Sifu is the only Wing Chun practitioner who doesn't use the YJKYM, which is what makes him the most different from everyone else.

So, you may not get a real answer of what the technical differences are, just hearsay and believed differences.

 

[WC_lun]

From what I have see, traditional wing chun or William Cheumg's wing chun uses angles on the bridge, attacking from a flnking position if at all possible. The others tend to get inside the reachof a person and fight from the inside out. This is one reason you'll rarely see a twc person in a ye jee kim yeung ma while in an exchange.

 

[tenzen]

Ok ill handle this one fellas as my wing chun is from both wsl and william cheung. First let me address leung tin. His representation is a mimic of the mook yan jong that is why most weight is on the rear leg, this also allows for faster kicking with the front leg, they want to get there first. They also have speedy hand techniques, sometimes giving way to true ability in favor of speed.
With twc you don't see yjkym a lot or at all in some cases. The idea here is to attack from the flank or blind spots like was already stated. They like to establish contact and then hit hard and fast. Trapping is not as heavily eemphasized.
In wsl wc trapping is favored due to the in your face type of fighting that would be used. Once the trap is established you strike like lightning and drive through your target until they crumble. You will also see some high kicks in this system, wsl learned a couple different arts and some things he saw useful he added to his wc. Also I think he was knocked out with a high kick to the head at one point so he incoprated it.
Hope this helps ya man. Either way start with what's going to be the most sensible option and move on later if you like. I mean a 6 hour round trip will be very expensive. If you get the oportunity though it would do you some good to experience the wsl system, especially when you start doing chi sao because its greatly emphasized in their system.

 

[zepedawingchun]

From what I have see, traditional wing chun or William Cheumg's wing chun uses angles on the bridge, attacking from a flnking position if at all possible. The others tend to get inside the reachof a person and fight from the inside out. This is one reason you'll rarely see a twc person in a ye jee kim yeung ma while in an exchange.

In our system, we do both, attack from the flank or get inside the reach and fight from the inside. We deal with whichever situation presents itself. I thought other lineages of WC did the same. So you're saying that it isn't so?

Also, we don't use YJKYM to fight from, it is a training stance only. We use what looks like a traditional boxers stance, left or right side forward, but with more weight on the back leg as opposed to 50/50, which allows for a quick step forward or a fast kick. Or we use a diaginal stance (ju sun ma), which allows shifting from one angle (direction) to the next or rapid side to side stepping (triangle stepping using sam kok bo or sam bo ma, some may call it sip ma) at a moments notice.

I've trained from 3 different lineages, one which was derived from Moy Yat Sifu and Duncan Leung Sifu (my first sifu trained Moy Yat Sifu, then Duncan Leung Sifu), and then Sifu Francis Fong. And all of them had the same philosophy, inside or outside, it didn't matter. Deal with what you get.

The only difference I can speak of is when setting up for the engagement or making first contact with your opponent. We match our opponent's stance, meaning, if the opponent uses a traditional boxers stance of left hand forward, we match it with a left hand forward. If they are set up with a right hand forward, we match it. Then once we have control of the situation, we change up to our stronge hand forward, whichever it may be, like most WC does.

 

[WC_lun]

Naw, Zepada, I'm saying a TWC man would rather have the leverage and superior defensive position of having a flanking position if given a choice. If one must fight from the inside then that is what a fella has to do. However, even then the YJKYM stance is not the best tool to move from inside to outside or as we would do, drive through the center since the body structure is not at its' best for that situation. I understand other systems do things a bit differently and stress other concepts though.

 

[tenzen]

You both have good points here. But let's remember, no matter the method the end result will be the same. Us standing over someones unconcsious *** victorious.

 

[geezer]

My question is this: Without getting into politics and lineage arguments that I care nothing about, can someone explain the technical differences between these 3 branches, e.g. TWC, WSL WC and Leung Ting Ving Tsun... Anyone know a little more about it care to comment.
Constructive comments only please.

I trained with Leung Ting during the eighties. Some of his people are very good. Some are not. And some are very commercial. In the '90s I stopped training, changed careers and began raising a family. When I returned to training many years later, I switched to the NVTO, an offshoot of my original group. Tenzen and Zepeda made some good observations about general tendencies of the different branches, but of course, the most important thing is to find a good instructor and then give it a go. Let us know how things turn out.

 

[Domino]

Many people I talk to favour WSL, just very direct and sometimes described as being 'more' offensive.

 

[tenzen]

Domino is right. The wsl lineage is all about brining the fight, but they do it intelligently. Make contact trap attack.

 

[Domino]

Domino is right. The wsl lineage is all about brining the fight, but they do it intelligently. Make contact trap attack.

Thanks man appreciated ! 1st time for everything
I like to try and integrate certain aspects in my chi sau and sparring.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Domino is right. The wsl lineage is all about brining the fight, but they do it intelligently. Make contact trap attack.

WSL lineage is not the only one that likes to bring the fight to you.

 

[cwk]

WSL lineage is not the only one that likes to bring the fight to you.

I thought all wing chun was supposed to be like this

 

[mook jong man]

I thought all wing chun was supposed to be like this

It should be , if it is direct.

 

[tenzen]

Yes all wing chun is for bringing the fight, but from my personal experience the wsl system is a bit more aggressive. Although any wc system has this potential, its just on the individual person. Because it is a concept based art you have to make it your own. Wsl practitioners just seem to be more aggressive and will attack more often.

 

[geezer]

Yes all wing chun is for bringing the fight, but from my personal experience the wsl system is a bit more aggressive...

Ever work with Emin Boztepe or the EBMAS people? It doesn't get much more aggressive than that!

 

[tenzen]

No I can't say that I have. Always wanted to though. I have heard a lot of good things about them.

 

[yak sao]

Ever work with Emin Boztepe or the EBMAS people? It doesn't get much more aggressive than that!

That's for sure. I had the good fortune to train under Sifu Emin for 10 years, and if I could, I would do it all over again

 

[Nabakatsu]

Congrats on the black belt yak! I just had a seminar with him in chicago last weekend, twas awesome. I plan on training a lot with him and michael casey in the near future!

 

[yak sao]

Congrats on the black belt yak! I just had a seminar with him in chicago last weekend, twas awesome. I plan on training a lot with him and michael casey in the near future!

Thanks....I got it from a whole lot of "yakking"

I've been on the receiving end of Sifu Emin's and si-sok Casey's fists many times...good times. They're great people to learn from. Take every opportunity.