R
Rainman
Guest
It's a comparitive analysis and not really theory. You can bounce a ball hard and fast but you don't have to. Depends on theory of the technique really.
Slap-Check
- Thread starter Brother John
- Start date
It's a comparitive analysis and not really theory. You can bounce a ball hard and fast but you don't have to. Depends on theory of the technique really.
Robbo
Purple Belt
Wasn't really talking about the ball. I understand that. It's how you apply all the other stuff that is only thery to me because I haven't put it into practise.
Rob
R
Rainman
Guest
Do you? How about this- what happens when you bounce a ball off a window? You run the risk of damaging it do you not? There are some windows on you body.
Doc
Senior Master
Exactly. I owe you a BAM. (not a typo)
Doc
Senior Master
That's what I said in the beginning. You are working within prescribed knowledge limitations created by your study. If you ever meet me, I will challenge everything you think you know and make you re-think it. (and throw a bunch away)
Doc
Senior Master
I like that analogy. May I use It?
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The scenario he described was not a good one. The term "trampolining" came from my OLD instructor, a Tracy stylist, which is why I have no doubt that you would not use it. The Basic premise is using a part of your body, normally your shoulder, pectoral, or bicep to redirect and increase the speed of a strike. It is used in conjunction with a change of angle and/or plane. When applying this principle, a part of your opponen't anatomy may also be used. Done incorrectly, you can and probably will hurt yourself.
R
Rainman
Guest
Of course- Your material gave me the idea anyways
R
Rainman
Guest
I am hip for that- whatever it is!
:asian:
Doc
Senior Master
That is a most informative explanation and points out one of the many differences in understanding, induced by a lack of communication due to teacher inconsistencies of interpretation.
I have often spoke of the lack of a firm curriculum between most kenpoists because of the conceptual nature of the commercial product by design. When instructors are left to, or forced to create, there will always be confusion outside of their influence.
By the way I do not automatically reject terminology without an extensive examination of what it purports to express. It is just unfortunate that many of the principles utilized in my interpretation do not "cross-platform" well with motion based interpretations. The term "Trampolining" is a good one now that you have explained it, (although it may have some technical flaws about where you strike your body), but Ed Parker had already created "Rebounding" as a subcategory of the term "Slapcheck" in my teaching, so I would find it unneccessary.
There is at least one "Old Tracy Fart" besides Al, I communicate with on a regular basis.
Doc
Senior Master
Body Alignment Mechanism
like the Slap-Check to the shoulder prior to an outward elbow I shared with you.
It performs multiple functions of energy, body alignment, rebounding, and creates a GCM.
(send the check to the PO Box
)
I saw this article on a website called PRACTICAL MARTIAL ARTS (http://www.practical-martial-arts.co.uk).
Is this an application or an understanding of a Slap-Check?
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
SLAP YOURSELF SILLY........
Slap! Slap! Slap! This is a sound that you will hear upon entering into an American Kenpo, Shaolin Long Fist, or various other styles of karate and kung fu's class. People seem to be slapping themselves while performing the techniques of this system. Have you ever wondered what they were really doing? Have you ever wondered if the martial artists themselves knew what they were doing?
In this article I will attempt to give ONE possible explanation f or this odd looking movement. Please understand that there are as many more explanations as there are stars in the heavens. This is not THE ANSWER for this rebounding motion, but instead it is MY ANSWER.
The Technique:
Observe a high ranking American Kenpo stylist and you might notice this person will appear to slap themselves, usually on the chest area, while performing the various hand techniques of the art. One hand will go out to strike the opponent, then rebound off their body and go out and strike the attacker again. This process gets repeated at very high speeds in a movement. Please understand that there are as many more explanations as there are stars in the heavens. This is not THE ANSWER for this rebounding motion, but instead it is MY ANSWER.
The Technique:
Observe a high ranking American Kenpo stylist and you might notice this person will appear to slap themselves, usually on the chest area, while performing the various hand techniques of the art. One hand will go out to strike the opponent, then rebound off their body and go out and strike the attacker again. This process gets repeated at very high speeds in a
To rebound the technique off the body
To minimize the harm done to the attacker (training partner)
To indicate where the technique will land on the attacker by striking yourself in the same spot
To ensure that the strike is given in a relaxed, whipping manner
Some people I spoke with had not idea why they did this motion in their forms.
My Reason for Slapping Myself:
I tend to view the martial arts from a TCM (Traditional Chinese Medical) viewpoint. I find value in the theory of Chi (Qi, Ki, parna, life-force, energy). I believe that there are several locations on the human body where the Chi can be affected. These areas are commonly called pressure points and the art of manipulating these areas can do by many names including: kyusho, dim-mak, vital point applications, hyul-dul, and a host of other names. It is from this tradition that I draw the following theory in regards to slapping yourself.
Try this simple experiment with a partner:
First, locate the pressure point called Lung One on yourself. This point is located where the arm and shoulder meet. It lies about one inch under the clavicle (collar bone) towards the arm. Press around with light, finger tip pressure until you find a painful spot. Now find the same pressure point on your partner using the same method of light, fingertip pressure.
Next, strike your partner in this area VERY LIGHTLY!!!! This strike is not a full cocked punch but instead more of a heavy push. Just give your partner a little tap and then ask them to remember the amount of pain they felt.
The next step is now to strike yourself in Lung One with a slapping motion and then rebound off that slap and strike your partner in Lung One. Again, please PLAY NICE and go not hit them hard. Ask your partner to remember the results of this strike and compare it to the first one. If you were on target the effects of the second strike (with the self slap) should be much greater.
This is due to the fact you are doing several things with this technique:
You are maintaining a 'soft body'
You are executing a whip-like strike
You are attacking a pressure point on the body (a cluster of nerves in this case)
You are 'programming' in your mind the exact location of Lung One on your partner by first striking there on yourself.
Try this out with several of your techniques to is if your results are not greatly improved. Remember, this technique is not for everyone or for every situation. This movement is greatly telegraphed if the attacker can see you slapping yourself or knows what you are doing. Only use this technique when you have the attacker in a position where they can not see you due to some obstruction in their line of sight or some movement of deception you have preformed.
Here is a good technique to try this combination on. It is the classic Delayed Sword: from American Kenpos curriculum.
Attacker reaches out with the right hand to grasp the collar or lapel of the defender. Defender steps back to perform a right inward block (strike) to the attackers radial nerve area.
Defender then steps into a cat stance and executes a low front snap kick to the attackers exposed abdomen, bladder, groin, or femoral artery region. This action will double the attacker over, obstructing the vision, allowing the time needed by the defender to perform the 'self-slapping' motion before the follow-up strike. The defender then executes the self-slap and strikes at a target of opportunity.
Is this an application or an understanding of a Slap-Check?
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
SLAP YOURSELF SILLY........
Slap! Slap! Slap! This is a sound that you will hear upon entering into an American Kenpo, Shaolin Long Fist, or various other styles of karate and kung fu's class. People seem to be slapping themselves while performing the techniques of this system. Have you ever wondered what they were really doing? Have you ever wondered if the martial artists themselves knew what they were doing?
In this article I will attempt to give ONE possible explanation f or this odd looking movement. Please understand that there are as many more explanations as there are stars in the heavens. This is not THE ANSWER for this rebounding motion, but instead it is MY ANSWER.
The Technique:
Observe a high ranking American Kenpo stylist and you might notice this person will appear to slap themselves, usually on the chest area, while performing the various hand techniques of the art. One hand will go out to strike the opponent, then rebound off their body and go out and strike the attacker again. This process gets repeated at very high speeds in a movement. Please understand that there are as many more explanations as there are stars in the heavens. This is not THE ANSWER for this rebounding motion, but instead it is MY ANSWER.
The Technique:
Observe a high ranking American Kenpo stylist and you might notice this person will appear to slap themselves, usually on the chest area, while performing the various hand techniques of the art. One hand will go out to strike the opponent, then rebound off their body and go out and strike the attacker again. This process gets repeated at very high speeds in a
To rebound the technique off the body
To minimize the harm done to the attacker (training partner)
To indicate where the technique will land on the attacker by striking yourself in the same spot
To ensure that the strike is given in a relaxed, whipping manner
Some people I spoke with had not idea why they did this motion in their forms.
My Reason for Slapping Myself:
I tend to view the martial arts from a TCM (Traditional Chinese Medical) viewpoint. I find value in the theory of Chi (Qi, Ki, parna, life-force, energy). I believe that there are several locations on the human body where the Chi can be affected. These areas are commonly called pressure points and the art of manipulating these areas can do by many names including: kyusho, dim-mak, vital point applications, hyul-dul, and a host of other names. It is from this tradition that I draw the following theory in regards to slapping yourself.
Try this simple experiment with a partner:
First, locate the pressure point called Lung One on yourself. This point is located where the arm and shoulder meet. It lies about one inch under the clavicle (collar bone) towards the arm. Press around with light, finger tip pressure until you find a painful spot. Now find the same pressure point on your partner using the same method of light, fingertip pressure.
Next, strike your partner in this area VERY LIGHTLY!!!! This strike is not a full cocked punch but instead more of a heavy push. Just give your partner a little tap and then ask them to remember the amount of pain they felt.
The next step is now to strike yourself in Lung One with a slapping motion and then rebound off that slap and strike your partner in Lung One. Again, please PLAY NICE and go not hit them hard. Ask your partner to remember the results of this strike and compare it to the first one. If you were on target the effects of the second strike (with the self slap) should be much greater.
This is due to the fact you are doing several things with this technique:
You are maintaining a 'soft body'
You are executing a whip-like strike
You are attacking a pressure point on the body (a cluster of nerves in this case)
You are 'programming' in your mind the exact location of Lung One on your partner by first striking there on yourself.
Try this out with several of your techniques to is if your results are not greatly improved. Remember, this technique is not for everyone or for every situation. This movement is greatly telegraphed if the attacker can see you slapping yourself or knows what you are doing. Only use this technique when you have the attacker in a position where they can not see you due to some obstruction in their line of sight or some movement of deception you have preformed.
Here is a good technique to try this combination on. It is the classic Delayed Sword: from American Kenpos curriculum.
Attacker reaches out with the right hand to grasp the collar or lapel of the defender. Defender steps back to perform a right inward block (strike) to the attackers radial nerve area.
Defender then steps into a cat stance and executes a low front snap kick to the attackers exposed abdomen, bladder, groin, or femoral artery region. This action will double the attacker over, obstructing the vision, allowing the time needed by the defender to perform the 'self-slapping' motion before the follow-up strike. The defender then executes the self-slap and strikes at a target of opportunity.
Doc
Senior Master
NO. Written by someone who admitted they had no idea.
R
Rainman
Guest
Originally posted by Doc
Body Alignment Mechanism
like the Slap-Check to the shoulder prior to an outward elbow I shared with you.
It performs multiple functions of energy, body alignment, rebounding, and creates a GCM.
(send the check to the PO Box
Hey that ain't in my book! Pams torso cousin? Or does it also work for the pedestal #3 area? And also is that (bam) a sub cat of a bracing s-ck or do they all fall under s-ck and then sub cat to a bam with a bracing s-ck under bam?
kenpo_cory
Purple Belt
Yeah, what he said.
Doc
Senior Master
The term "slap-check " was always used as a "catch-all" mechanism under Parker, but they perform different functions that include subcategories of function. As an example, a BAM includes a slap-check depending on use, but every BAM is not a slap-check.
Some BAM's are PAM's. Some slap-checks are BRACING. Some are energy conduits and "drains" or "wipes," and some "all of the above" and more. I had to begin to create terminology to separate the many functions.
The only way to learn is to concentrate on how to move and be functional. As you become physically capable and effective, than the why is taught to you a little at a time. You cannot teach or discover this information for yourself because unlike motion, it is not conceptual. It is real and you must prove it consistently on the floor. not talk about it.
The most important thing in study is to become a "warrior" first because we are a self-defense art. There is a tendancy for many to want to be the "scholar" at the same time and concentrate one "whys." There are significant limitations to that method of study.
Fact:
You cannot be the warrior while trying to be the scholar and vice versa. Only through becoming the warrior will the schorlarly information and experience begin to make sense as you slowly assimilate it from a "scholar."
Because of the "conceptual" structure of the Ed Parker commercial model, many have chosen to "over intellectualize" and speak in great detail of concepts they neither understand nor can actually realistically perform. Parker said these people do "hypothetical Kenpo," talking about what they "could do," instead of what "they did."
I guess if I were to sum up what SubLevel Four is about to a student, I guess I would say, "You must prove you can properly and effectively perform the technique. You are given only enough information to be functional. Other than that, talking about it is not acceptable until you can do it."
Becuase I thought I was reasonably intelligent I asked Parker a lot of questions as well. Some he answered, many he would just ignor. That was my clue when he didn't answer. One day I asked a really technical question in an effort to truly understand what he was trying to get me to do. He stopped, looked at me, and said with a smile on his face, "Which would you rather have? The knowledge of why you do a technique a certain way or the ability to do it?" I said, "Ideally, I would like both." He said, "That's what I said when I was asked the same question." He continued, "We all have a limited amount of time to learn. You should learn how while you can still do, and if you don't run out of time, you might learn why if someone will teach you. If you concentrate on all the reasons why, you won't have time to learn how. You'll run out of time."
So it is with the old Chinese methods. Much time is spent (I remember) learning how to move with little explanation. Only after years of training and if they like you, do they begin to tell you why. I spent enough time to make "black sash" under a Chinese Grandmaster (Ark Wong) who rarely told me "why" to do anything. His favorite expression, in broken English was, "Don't let them get your bird." as he pointed at my groin. It wasn't until I met Ed Parker did he begin to explain much of my previous trainiing.
Now at least I tell students some "whys" why as they go along, but in most instances they still have to prove to me they can do it first. Than maybe some of the "whys" will make sense. Ed Parker was right. I'm glad if he had to "run out of time," it was on the why end. He taught me "how to do" which now allows me to work on some of the "whys" I missed. If I knew "why" and he was gone, I coud never learn to "do." That would be like learning to swim on the internet.
As usual (unfortunately), he was right.
Doc,
Is it possible to give us a VERY BASIC, step-by-step sequence for a slap-check?
I know that "the devils in the details" but I would like something to see. Sort of a video clip for the mind.
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
Is it possible to give us a VERY BASIC, step-by-step sequence for a slap-check?
I know that "the devils in the details" but I would like something to see. Sort of a video clip for the mind.
Thanks
Jeremy Bays
Doc
Senior Master
It is a part of our "basics" and is taught to white belts.
Stand in a training horse. Execute a right outward handsword to 3:00.
At the moment the handsword should make contact, slap the front of your right shoulder simultaneously.
END LESSON
R
Rainman
Guest
This is what- why is nervous system theory
Already been proven- I can feel pams, gcm, and slap cks working in unison. You showed me the five basic blocks with the s-cks, block strike samething system wide. No more 3rd class levers to strike with. Besides you brought up bams- just a slap ck to me. Or at least it was... I'll take my cd now!
:asian:
Doc
Senior Master
Pesky dude ain'tcha!
