Sites with info on Kenpo Sticks

[arnisador]

Originally posted by pknox
BTW, when you say "jump", are you referring to a footwork maneuver?

Yes, and not a literal jump by any means--I mean a quick and explosive step-drag movement, or possibly in some cases a shuffle-step if moving backward. I'm thinking of times when things are moving too fast to have great luck with our usual 45-degree stepping scheme.

P.S. Yes, lots of gunting possibilities! That's what I taught my son tonight--"Variations on Gunting". We did end up in a few of those locks, occasionally one hand controlling both of the opponent's arms.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
...(either bring your stick in by pushing it forward and leaving it basically straight up, or by moving it through a fairly tight circle in a plane perpindicular to the floor until contact is made).

arnisador -

What do you guys call that technique? I'm pretty sure in Inosanto-Lacoste it's a horizontal redondo, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by pknox
No worries -- actually you've got a great opportunity here, as nobody knows stickfighting better than, well, stickfighters.

That's what I figure. I'm actually seriously considering joining their school. But there are a lot of things to consider beore doing this, not the least of which is what to do about Kenpo. I really love the art, but I've been well over a year now without a steady training partner. Tough decission.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
Yes, and not a literal jump by any means--I mean a quick and explosive step-drag movement, or possibly in some cases a shuffle-step if moving backward. I'm thinking of times when things are moving too fast to have great luck with our usual 45-degree stepping scheme.

Like a sort of straight blast? Makes sense. I've actually had some success stepping (blasting, really) almost completely past the opponent, and then hitting a rear target with a backhand. Not exactly tournament legal, but something I think I'd try on the street. A strike to the back of the head would probably get their attention nicely. I always feel more comfortable doing that with a double stick setup, as I like to keep the second stick back to keep from taking one in the teeth on the way past.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by pknox
arnisador -

What do you guys call that technique? I'm pretty sure in Inosanto-Lacoste it's a horizontal redondo, but I'm not 100% sure.

In the second case, I'm really thinking more of a #12 strike (overhead strike with blade awareness) than what we would call a redonda or hirada or abanico movement. A very shortened overhead strike that moves from your usual tick position in a circle with blade awareness. It may describe a very limited arc of the circle, unlike what I think of as a redonda-type movement.

I doubt I'm giving you the right impression--we consider it a special case of the overhead strike but it wouldn't look like one.

In the first case, it's the idea of the C block--your hand describes a small letter C, drawn from bottom to top.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by ob2c
That's what I figure. I'm actually seriously considering joining their school. But there are a lot of things to consider beore doing this, not the least of which is what to do about Kenpo. I really love the art, but I've been well over a year now without a steady training partner. Tough decission.

The kenpo school is 60 miles from you, right? How about regular training with the kali guys, and weekends (or whenever you can) with the kenpo folks? That way you could train in both.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by pknox
Like a sort of straight blast? Makes sense. I've actually had some success stepping (blasting, really) almost completely past the opponent, and then hitting a rear target with a backhand. Not exactly tournament legal, but something I think I'd try on the street. A strike to the back of the head would probably get their attention nicely. I always feel more comfortable doing that with a double stick setup, as I like to keep the second stick back to keep from taking one in the teeth on the way past.

Yes, and then consider punyos, or grappling with the stick(s) since you've negated their striking range.

For holding the hands higher than theirs, one must look out for the occasional person who will take it as an invitation to use ocho-ocho (figure eights) to strike your hands from below! Keeping the hands in motion helps.

As for joining, Modern Arnis has done very well by fitting itself in with other arts. I don't think the FMA would conflict with one's Kenpo.

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by pknox
Yes! And isn't that also a concept you have heard before, in kenpo? The systems definitely mesh well, both in technique and philosophy.

Actually, I was talking about Kenpo. They havn't really said anything about this to me in the Kali sessions. Most of them keep it low, or they'll put it out as bait. Tricky beggars! I've learned not to bite- I go for something else. I usually still get whacked, but at least I don't feel so foolish about it.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
In the second case, I'm really thinking more of a #12 strike (overhead strike with blade awareness) than what we would call a redonda or hirada or abanico movement. A very shortened overhead strike that moves from your usual tick position in a circle with blade awareness. It may describe a very limited arc of the circle, unlike what I think of as a redonda-type movement.

I doubt I'm giving you the right impression--we consider it a special case of the overhead strike but it wouldn't look like one.

In the first case, it's the idea of the C block--your hand describes a small letter C, drawn from bottom to top.

OK. I see. I believe a redondo would be more of a full circle, and this would be more of a shorter arc. I think hirada would be the correct term for us as well. At the end of the arc, is it coming straight down to the top of the head, as opposed to the side of the head/temple, due to the sharp cutting of the circle?

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
For holding the hands higher than theirs, one must look out for the occasional person who will take it as an invitation to use ocho-ocho (figure eights) to strike your hands from below! Keeping the hands in motion helps.

Excellent point. However, if you're really suicidal , you could use this to draw a low attack, and maybe be able to followup with a sweet little short #1 or #2 caroming off of the block. Or then again, you could get creamed. Granted, this will work once, and after that will be an invitation for reconstructive surgery.

I'm thinking double here. I'd be crazy to try to pull that off with my live hand.

 

[pknox]

By the way, I hate ocho-ocho -- I get chewed up with that one all the time.

 

[arnisador]

Well, straight down to the top of the head or even straight in to the center of the face. I said 'tight circle' but it doesn't fully capture my meaning. Imagine your stick vertical and rotating it into the opponent's face--your tip travels more-or-less on the arc of a circle, but it will look nearly like a straight-line shot into the face. Now, it isn't exactly a rotation--it's a strike that causes the stick to move like this. Of course, since you're jamming that may well be interrupted by his stick. If so the C block is stronger and leaves you less open to counters directed at manipulating your stick (in single stick).

Sorry, would be easy to show!

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
P.S. Yes, lots of gunting possibilities! That's what I taught my son tonight--"Variations on Gunting". We did end up in a few of those locks, occasionally one hand controlling both of the opponent's arms.

Which reminds me how nasty Silat really is at its core. Of all of the arts I've taken, I think it left me with the most bruises by far.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by pknox
By the way, I hate ocho-ocho -- I get chewed up with that one all the time.

There's one guy who has my number somehow and can often get me with it--otherwise a straight line shot down or switching to banda y banda (side-to-side strikes) often makes them switch startegies as it keeps interrupting their figure-eights with hand shots (Prof. Presas' favorite trick!).

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by pknox
The kenpo school is 60 miles from you, right? How about regular training with the kali guys, and weekends (or whenever you can) with the kenpo folks? That way you could train in both.

Actually, the Kenpo school I train with is over twice that far, one way. The one that is about 60 miles away is actually Ki Fighting Concepts, run by Sifu Joseph Simonet. They do a combination of Kenpo, Silat, Ving Tsun- and his number two (Addy Hernandez) is an excelent Taiji instructor as well. Believe me, I've also considered that! My problem is that I love American Kenpo, and the instructor I train under is one of the best I've seen in any art or discipline. I've talked with him about my situation, of course. But it would be a tough change to make- I just havn't been able to do it yet. But you need a good partner to work with to learn Kenpo- it is a hands on art. I'll work it out eventually. And I may do something like you suggested and do both. We'll see.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
There's one guy who has my number somehow and can often get me with it--otherwise a straight line shot down or switching to banda y banda (side-to-side strikes) often makes them switch startegies as it keeps interrupting their figure-eights with hand shots (Prof. Presas' favorite trick!).

Very nice! And hand strikes do work both ways, since by "chewed up" I meant getting hit on the hands. The beauty of a figure eight is they can hit your hands on the way up and the way down! I guess I never really thought of side-to-side. I always basically try to stop the stick with an immobilization or a disarm during an 8, because I get sick of getting hit in the hands all the time.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by ob2c
Actually, the Kenpo school I train with is over twice that far, one way. The one that is about 60 miles away is actually Ki Fighting Concepts, run by Sifu Joseph Simonet. They do a combination of Kenpo, Silat, Ving Tsun- and his number two (Addy Hernandez) is an excelent Taiji instructor as well. Believe me, I've also considered that! My problem is that I love American Kenpo, and the instructor I train under is one of the best I've seen in any art or discipline. I've talked with him about my situation, of course. But it would be a tough change to make- I just havn't been able to do it yet. But you need a good partner to work with to learn Kenpo- it is a hands on art. I'll work it out eventually. And I may do something like you suggested and do both. We'll see.

Well, you definitely seem to have thought it out. Good luck!

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by pknox
Well, you definitely seem to have thought it out. Good luck!

Thanks. And yes, I've thought a lot about it. And, as I said, there are other considrations that I won't boar you with. One thing about it, I have some good options here. So I won't do too bad any way I end up going!

PS: I think I just got involved in hijacking my own thread! I'd be worried that it would get moved to the FMA forum if the team leader in this hijack wasn't the senior moderator.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ob2c
PS: I think I just got involved in hijacking my own thread! I'd be worried that it would get moved to the FMA forum if the team leader in this hijack wasn't the senior moderator.

We can get warnings too! Don't assume we're not guilty just because I'm involved!

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by arnisador
We can get warnings too! Don't assume we're not guilty just because I'm involved!

Nah! Discussions sort of go where they go, and there's some good info between the two of you. But if anyone knows of any good sites, I'm still interested.