Simply to Simplify

[wingchun100]

Okay, now I know from mentioning this guy in the other thread, his name is not met with anything that resembles fondness. However, I want to bring up something he said because, for me, it was another "lightbulb" type of moment.

In one of the Emin videos I watched, he mentioned how he didn't worry about the kind of attack that someone used against him. Instead, he just worried about angles.

Now in my opinion, one of the key features of Wing Chun is "simplicity." So for me, what he said clicked automatically. I was like, "Wow! Instead of worrying about the dozens of different ways someone could attack me, I worry about angles of attack? Well, shoot...there are a lot LESS of those!" It just made sense to me, and that idea seems to be in line with what I feel is one of (if not the) most important features of Wing Chun.

Naturally, I am sure there will be lots of disagreement. However, I hope it is respectful disagreement. Don't let hatred of Emin turn your responses into ones filled with bile toward ME. I'm just sharing a thought I had.

 

[JowGaWolf]

From what I've seen of him. His fight experience may be limited to fighting against linear attacks. Wing Chun Vs Wing Chun so his statements may be in the context of Wing chun and linear attacks.

 

[Buka]

I agree with him/that. And "angles" is as good a way to describe it as any.

I think the approach of "when this comes in instead of that" overcomplicates fighting. I think in training, if you start complicating based on what the other guy is doing, you start fighting his fight not yours. And I believe you fight like you train.

This shouldn't be confused with "adapting" which I think is the single most important, and overlooked, aspect of fighting, especially striking.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think in training, if you start complicating based on what the other guy is doing, you start fighting his fight not yours. And I believe you fight like you train.

I agree. Unfortunately the majority of martial arts schools teach from a reactive point of view.

 

[Flying Crane]

A lot of stuff in martial arts is over-complicated. Honestly, I see a lot of that in the wing chun discussions here.

I think angles may well be a better, less complicated way of looking at things. You may need to study the different types of attacks in more detail, but with the goal of understanding their angles in order to then see it in less complicated terms.

 

[Buka]

double post

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree with him/that. And "angles" is as good a way to describe it as any.

I think the approach of "when this comes in instead of that" overcomplicates fighting. I think in training, if you start complicating based on what the other guy is doing, you start fighting his fight not yours. And I believe you fight like you train.

This shouldn't be confused with "adapting" which I think is the single most important, and overlooked, aspect of fighting, especially striking.

Agreed. In any MA, recognizing some way to lump attacks together into groups makes it easier to understand what's different as attacks change. So, for instance, we tend to talk about round vs. straight attacks. Those are not as distinctly separated as they sound, but it creates the rough ends of the spectrum. The adaptation (in part) is what you do to account for the myriad, smaller, differences within a group (so, how is a straight punch different from a straight stab, how is a straight short punch different from a straight long punch). FMA does the same thing with their angles (8 of them IIRC). It's a useful framework for generating the basics. "Advanced" stuff is often just the basics adapted better.

 

[geezer]

Forgeting the BS lineage wars and/or personality issues, Emin is definitely somebody worth paying attention to. His WT is powerful and functional.

 

[Vajramusti]

Forgeting the BS lineage wars and/or personality issues, Emin is definitely somebody worth paying attention to. His WT is powerful and functional.

-----------------------------
Well stated.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Forgeting the BS lineage wars and/or personality issues, Emin is definitely somebody worth paying attention to. His WT is powerful and functional.

In what context? Wing Chun vs Wing Chun, Wing Chun vs BJJ? This is not to disagree with you, but the same strategy against one system is not always the same strategy that's required for another. My strategy for using angles to fight is not a "one size fits all" strategy and I can only assume that he would have the same challenges that anyone of would have when fighting against someone from a different system.

 

[marques]

Fights are chaotic and largely unpredictable. But in order to 'simplify', I predict what the opponent can do from his position and only a few dangerous things can be done from each distance. Adding to this a 'fake easy target', the opponent options are reduced to very few things. And if s/he doesn't start well, hardly will finish well. Ok, fighting is still chaotic, and surprises pop-up here and there...

Perhaps different names for the same things. We all need our simplification methods in order to automatize procedures. And surprises to improve it.

If we wait for any attack, out of every possibility, to select a reaction... too late, usually.

 

[drop bear]

In what context? Wing Chun vs Wing Chun, Wing Chun vs BJJ? This is not to disagree with you, but the same strategy against one system is not always the same strategy that's required for another. My strategy for using angles to fight is not a "one size fits all" strategy and I can only assume that he would have the same challenges that anyone of would have when fighting against someone from a different system.

A lot of BJJ is countered with good position. So the idea of angles is especially relevant. If you were not a BJJ guy then just learning the angles would be you highest percentage chance of controlling that system.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A lot of BJJ is countered with good position. So the idea of angles is especially relevant.

In striking art, if you can move into your opponent's "side door", his back hand can't punch you (except spin back fist). So the angle will make a big difference.

 

[drop bear]

In striking art, if you can move into your opponent's "side door", his back hand can't punch you (except spin back fist). So the angle will make a big difference.

Yeah more than that though

Say you are in guard with a bjj guy. You would not be over thinking what armlock you need to defend.

He needs to be off line. So you keep him straight.

He needs to break your posture. So you keep your posture.

He needs control of your limbs. So you deny him that control.

Then just punch the guy. You don't even worry about your own submissions.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

He needs to be off line. So you keep him straight.

This is why if you keep circling around your opponent, your opponent will only have 2 options:

- turn around with you, or
- attack you.

In either case, you just force your opponent to fight the way that you want to.

Here is an example.

 

[wingchun100]

Forgeting the BS lineage wars and/or personality issues, Emin is definitely somebody worth paying attention to. His WT is powerful and functional.

I am glad to read that. For a moment I thought I was crazy for watching his videos in amazement.

 

[wingchun100]

In what context? Wing Chun vs Wing Chun, Wing Chun vs BJJ? This is not to disagree with you, but the same strategy against one system is not always the same strategy that's required for another. My strategy for using angles to fight is not a "one size fits all" strategy and I can only assume that he would have the same challenges that anyone of would have when fighting against someone from a different system.

I don't think Geezer meant between styles or anything like that. He basically just meant, "Emin is good. Forget his ego."

 

[wingchun100]

A lot of stuff in martial arts is over-complicated. Honestly, I see a lot of that in the wing chun discussions here.

I think angles may well be a better, less complicated way of looking at things. You may need to study the different types of attacks in more detail, but with the goal of understanding their angles in order to then see it in less complicated terms.

It definitely makes it easier for me. Let's say for example there are only 8 angles from which someone can attack you. That is a lot less to worry about. If I think of how many techniques, I could really freak out! I mean, check this out:

jab punch
cross punch
hook punch
uppercut
roundhouse kick
hook kick
side kick
front kick
snap kick
spinning back kick
crescent kick
leg sweep

In just one sitting I already thought of 12 techniques, which outnumbers my angles. (Granted, I did not count out if there really are only 8 angles, but you get my point.)

 

[wckf92]

It definitely makes it easier for me. Let's say for example there are only 8 angles from which someone can attack you. That is a lot less to worry about. If I think of how many techniques, I could really freak out! I mean, check this out:

jab punch
cross punch
hook punch
uppercut
roundhouse kick
hook kick
side kick
front kick
snap kick
spinning back kick
crescent kick
leg sweep

In just one sitting I already thought of 12 techniques, which outnumbers my angles. (Granted, I did not count out if there really are only 8 angles, but you get my point.)

Nope...IMO there's really only about six angles.
Some of your listed items are in the same category (I.e. linear, looping, different vs same heights, etc).

 

[wingchun100]

Nope...IMO there's really only about six angles.
Some of your listed items are in the same category (I.e. linear, looping, different vs same heights, etc).

Well, like I said, I was just saying 8 to throw a number out there for my example.

As for the listed items falling in the same category, that is my point.